Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ February 8 2011, 6:31 PM GMTastrology, a sincere science
Presumably the definition of a "sincere science" is that which is based on absolutely no peer-reviewed scientific evidence whatsoever?
Astrology Page 6
Quote: deckard @ February 8 2011, 11:28 PM GMTI do 'believe in astrology', though I put no stock in it myself.
Huh?
Quote: zooo @ February 8 2011, 11:33 PM GMTHuh?
I am a credulous skeptic.
Like... an astrology agnostic.
Quote: zooo @ February 8 2011, 11:36 PM GMTLike... an astrology agnostic.
Good way to put it. I guess a less clumsy way for me to have put it is that I have not looked into the subject well enough to say whether or not I put any stock in it therefore I would not dismiss it outright (unlike some people, who probably also have not looked into the subject well enough).
I should also point out that I am agreeing with Kipper. I think the horoscope in the daily newspaper is a load of rubbish, so if that is all we are discussing, then I agree.
Quote: deckard @ February 8 2011, 11:28 PM GMTI find it incredibly unnerving at the way the modern skeptic contemptuously dismisses the past and how people thought. It is pompous and irrational.
Man's knowledge is continuously growing as a result of advances in science, so it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss outdated theories and beliefs that have since been disproved by modern scientific methods. Occasionally an ancient bit of lore (such as a plant that was used for a specific medical purpose) proves to have a solid basis in fact when examined by today's scientific methods, but that doesn't mean that we have to give the flat-Earthers and witch burners the benefit of the doubt.
An interesting story coming out of my part of the world. A group of sky-watchers recently claimed that there has been a shift in the Zodiac meaning you might not have actually been born under the sign you thought.
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/style/113100139.html?elr=KArksUUUoDEy3LGDiO7aiU
Quote: DaButt @ February 8 2011, 11:47 PM GMTMan's knowledge is continuously growing as a result of advances in science, so it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss outdated theories and beliefs that have since been disproved by modern scientific methods. Occasionally an ancient bit of lore (such as a plant that was used for a specific medical purpose) proves to have a solid basis in fact when examined by today's scientific methods, but that doesn't mean that we have to give the flat-Earthers and witch burners the benefit of the doubt.
I love the direction this conversation is taking. Alas, I am out the door at the minute, but I would very much like to discuss this later.
Ever so often I go into a pub on a Tuesday in Bath and it's rammed full of the ladieeees. Why so? Because that's palm reading tea leaf reading astrological sign reading and so on night. Not a man in sight. Sorry girls, that's what I call grasping at straws. However I suspect in some unknown and wonderous way it's probably the fault of men 
Quote: DaButt @ February 8 2011, 11:47 PM GMTMan's knowledge is continuously growing as a result of advances in science, so it is perfectly reasonable to dismiss outdated theories and beliefs that have since been disproved by modern scientific methods. Occasionally an ancient bit of lore (such as a plant that was used for a specific medical purpose) proves to have a solid basis in fact when examined by today's scientific methods, but that doesn't mean that we have to give the flat-Earthers and witch burners the benefit of the doubt.
I thought you were a fan of the tea party movement? 
Quote: deckard @ February 8 2011, 11:28 PM GMTI find it incredibly unnerving at the way the modern skeptic contemptuously dismisses the past and how people thought. It is pompous and irrational.
It's not pompous or irrational to dismiss astrology, it's common sense.
There is plenty of proof which is good enough for many people, including previous non believers. But hardened, determined sceptics will always delight in denying anything but the most solid material proof before their eyes. You are predetermining that you will not be convinced!
It's not going to give you such a pysical proof as (modern) medicine does, no, so don't judge it by that standard, it is unfair and silly to expect that. Having mentioned medicine again though, it's important to remind some how many many people were sceptical of medicine in its infancy. Out of all the physical sciences, Medicine has had the longest, most tortuous road to convincing people of its efficacy.
Science is a revoloutinary business. There's only so much; time, resource money and smart people. So some stuff needs to be dumped.
No one expects Drs to study the 4 humours, or Geographers to difinitively prove there isn't a waterfall at the edge of the world.
With the growing collapse of religion outside of the most fundamnetalist areas the creep of bad old science is scary. To say the very, very least.
When the future king of England lobbies for something as plainly barking as Homeopathy we should start to get very scared.
Personally I've worked in the fields of mental health/autism and associated learning disability and there's always another nutty theory. Often harmful, always expensive and never scientifically researched.
Astrology may not be hugely harmful in and of it's self but what it respresents is. You can't yell boo at the Pope and then read Mystic Meg it's a logical dead end.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ February 8 2011, 2:38 PM GMTIt has to be a personalised full planets horoscope to have any bearing or make sense. You can get these done on line for about 20 odd quid I believe.
You can get them done free online too. Or at least you could a few years ago. I worked with a girl who was bonkers about astrology. Pity, as she was otherwise quite nice.
Quote: Blenkinsop @ February 8 2011, 5:37 PM GMTYet people phone in and ask these so-called experts for potentially life-changing advice about relationships, emigration, jobs etc. and then seem to lap up the cack that these chancers spout as 'genuine' answers.
It beggars belief.
Heh! In the past I have posed as a card reader. It's dead easy; you just need to be fluent in bullshit and mystical mumbo jumbo. Unbelievable how many people lapped it up, believing that the shit I was making up had any connection to the cards, let alone their own lives.
No it isn't illogical nor irrational. You and others are choosing to view life from a very hardened physical phenomena point of view. With this very rigid and closed off stance, I guarantee you that humanity would not have advanced in the way it has!
We have done so by being open minded and pluralistic in our beliefs. It is possible to have a variety of belief systems without being confused or it making you a hypocrite. Not all will be as strong as others, and maybe some are more for comfort rather than really depending on, but that is what being human is.
Quote: Griff @ February 9 2011, 10:46 AM GMTI threw a massive party for my 30th (joint with a friend). We hired a venue, had a live band, another room with movies showing on a big screen, free booze and food etc, and one of the other things we had was a guy doing Tarot (whose contact details we found pinned to the wall of a pub).
Sounds like a swell party, especially the booze and movies.