I think at one point he mouthed bullshit and said rubbish!
That's not even American!
Would Till Death Us Do Part get an airing today? Page 6
Brilliant.
One thing amazed me on Love Thy Neighbour was that for all his racism remarks, Eddie Booth was a fully paid up union man (shop steward), and loyal member of the Labour Party, not the National Front, as you may expect. Would this happen nowadays?
Alf Garnett was a right wing Tory, although he has never been a member to my knowledge. Rigsby and old Steptoe were Conservative Party members at times.
Quote: WolvoExPunk @ January 13 2011, 6:13 PM GMTOne thing amazed me on Love Thy Neighbour was that for all his racism remarks, Eddie Booth was a fully paid up union man (shop steward), and loyal member of the Labour Party, not the National Front, as you may expect. Would this happen nowadays?
Alf Garnett was a right wing Tory, although he has never been a member to my knowledge. Rigsby and old Steptoe were Conservative Party members at times.
Politically and socially, the Nazi party was a left-wing organisation. It's some weird fallacy that that kind of intolerance is exclusively and inherently of the right. It doesn't tend to be the educated and presumably Tory-voting middle classes one sees convicted of racist or homophobic attacks, then or now.
Quote: Aaron @ January 13 2011, 6:21 PM GMTPolitically and socially, the Nazi party was a left-wing organisation. It's some weird fallacy that that kind of intolerance is exclusively and inherently of the right. It doesn't tend to be the educated and presumably Tory-voting middle classes one sees convicted of racist or homophobic attacks, then or now.
I think you're confusing your hatred of left wing parties with hatred of Nazis. Actually properly left-wing would support anyone who makes money (ok, ethnic minorities tend not to make such money as the majority but it's usually Tory policy to support and indeed socialise with black/Jewish etc. people with money, as well as other people with money). This wing stuff only really applies to more healthy parties, not Nazis.
Quote: Tim Azure @ January 13 2011, 6:58 PM GMTI think you're confusing your hatred of left wing parties with hatred of Nazis.
The Nazi thing was really only an aside. But their protectionism and heavy control over the state, nationalising of industries and iron-fist centralised control over many issues - not to mention their attitude to an already hyper-inflated economy, which wouldn't be entirely out of place in the Great Book of Gordon Brown Ideas - are certainly not signatory policies of the right.
Anyway, we're getting rather off topic now!
Hiya
I think the fact that Alf Garnett is still talked about today, dissected and analysed, speaks volumes for the quality of Johnny Speight's scriptwriting, and excellent acting by Warren Mitchell and company.
Will people be talking about Black Books or Little Britain in thirty years time? I can't see it personally. That's not by any means denigrating the two shows I used for comparison.
When Till Death first aired, there were only two TV channels. There was a vast audience. It was discussed the following day in the workplace. And no, I'm not off on a nostalgia jag, but with so much more choice, comedy has become infinitely more specialised. It isn't populist any more. It's aimed at specific target audiences for the most part. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, just that most stuff will never reach - much less appeal to - the masses.
Would it get an airing today? I don't see why it shouldn't, but the answer is probably not. Just my opinion, but PC is killing comedy. I would have thought that following on from the prime mission of making an audience laugh, the secondary aim should be to provoke debate and discussion.
But then that's why we're here.
Skoob.
Quote: Skoob @ January 29 2011, 3:05 AM GMTHiya
I think the fact that Alf Garnett is still talked about today, dissected and analysed, speaks volumes for the quality of Johnny Speight's scriptwriting, and excellent acting by Warren Mitchell and company.
Will people be talking about Black Books or Little Britain in thirty years time? I can't see it personally. That's not by any means denigrating the two shows I used for comparison.
When Till Death first aired, there were only two TV channels. There was a vast audience. It was discussed the following day in the workplace. And no, I'm not off on a nostalgia jag, but with so much more choice, comedy has become infinitely more specialised. It isn't populist any more. It's aimed at specific target audiences for the most part. I don't think that's a bad thing at all, just that most stuff will never reach - much less appeal to - the masses.
Would it get an airing today? I don't see why it shouldn't, but the answer is probably not. Just my opinion, but PC is killing comedy. I would have thought that following on from the prime mission of making an audience laugh, the secondary aim should be to provoke debate and discussion.
But then that's why we're here.
Skoob.
I laughed, but times have changed, 'The Masses' will remain forever ignorent...
Quote: Skoob @ January 29 2011, 3:05 AM GMTWould it get an airing today? I don't see why it shouldn't, but the answer is probably not. Just my opinion, but PC is killing comedy.
Skoob.
It probably is killing comedy to an extent. John Cleese summed it well when talking about Fawlty Towers, and other shows as well.
He said that the PC brigade are fine, as long as they're a minority that gets heard when something happens to get their back up. The problem now is that they are running the country, this shouldn't happen.
I completely agree with him.
Classic sitcom. I'm amazed how many people thought it was racist - it's actively anti-racist, you're meant to laugh at what a berk he is! Surprised people missed this as it was the entire raison d'etre behind the show/characterisation/comedy.
Lovely moment: Alf pushes his wheel-chair-bound wife past a church: 'Jesus Saves'. Alf: 'Not on my bleedin' pension he doesn't.'
Alf Garnett was a perfect conduit for satire and could've just gone on and on were it not for Johnny Speight passing away - and political correctness of course.
Alf went on about many things, so he could've carried on without (being perceived as) being racially offensive IMO.
He was a truly brilliant comic caricature the likes of which we never see now, unfortunately.
All depends if it's blue collar enough for Danny Cohen.
I saw Till Death Us Do Part on BBC Four last year but it's true to say repeats are sparing.
Johnny Speight's writing and Warren Mitchell's acting made it one of the best sitcoms of its day. His views on race are just a part of his ignorant persona and although it is about an old style imperialist raving against 1960s liberalism it still stands the test of time.
Check one of the early 70s colour episodes in which Alf proudly tells Mike how much his house has gone up in value and for Mike to argue that it's just relative asset inflation (a conversation you will still hear any day of the week).
An hilarious argument ensues and one you would only see today on a 'posh peoples comedy' as the plebs would find such talk 'boring' and 'too difficult.'
Also loved the way Speight coped with Mary Whitehouse's constant barracking by absorbing it into Alf's rants.
Garnett never watched the BBC which he believed was full of lefties and filth. Again a view you can still read in the Daily Mail 40 years later.
Quote: youngian @ February 2 2011, 1:41 PM GMTI saw Till Death Us Do Part on BBC Four last year but it's true to say repeats are sparing.
Sadly, one gets the distinct impression that they broadcast that (it's the first episode - S01E01) as some kind of curio, as if to say "Ooh, look what we used to do! Isn't it so offensive? Aren't you glad we're so wimpy and liberal now?"
Quote: Aaron @ February 2 2011, 3:42 PM GMTSadly, one gets the distinct impression that they broadcast that (it's the first episode - S01E01) as some kind of curio, as if to say "Ooh, look what we used to do! Isn't it so offensive? Aren't you glad we're so wimpy and liberal now?"
Like Attitudes Night on Day Today