Understanding Feedback

Hi

Received some feedback from a competition a while back and I wanted to check with other ppl whether what a couple of things meant.

I've copied and pasted a couple of the -ve points.

Structure: While the premise has potential, we found the plot rather muddled with over written dialogue.

Characters. The traits in the character descriptions don't seem fed into the characters in the action of the sitcom so there are a lack of individual voices.

Dialogue/Gags: The dialogue and gags need to come from character to engage and while the writer has found a sturdy premise, we feel this script still needs work.

MY INTERPRETATIONS

STRUCTURE - (OVER WRITTEN DIALOGUE)

What does that mean?

I've written too much for the characters?
The scenes are too long?
The characters talk too much to each other about things?

Didn't really understand WHY it was muddled if not for the "overwritten dialogue"

The CHARACTERS - Saying that the descriptions of the characters that I put at the start wasn't the same as the actual characters in the script.

DIALOGUE/GAGS - Saying that what is written could be said by any of the characters rather than the ONLY the character actually speaking.

I could post a few pages (Roughly = to 3-4 minutes of script) of what I wrote as an example if people want. (Not for critique purposes... just to get the fuller picture.)

Basically saying... - MAKE CHARACTERS STRONGER WITH STRONGER INDIVIDUAL VOICES is what I'm getting.

Thanks in advance to people

Quote: z--- @ December 15 2010, 6:44 PM GMT

MAKE CHARACTERS STRONGER WITH STRONGER INDIVIDUAL VOICES is what I'm getting.

View original

That certainly seems a large part of it. It sounds like you need to more rigorously prune your dialogue.

With good dialogue, it should be possible to cover up the name and know who is talking. Something quite hard to achieve in a pilot/one episode script. But the point is, that if you can't distinguish between the different characters, who you don't know, then something is amiss. Also, it could be a case that there is unnecessary dialogue in there. It could be exposition for example. It is hard to know without seeing the piece itself.

STRUCTURE - (OVER WRITTEN DIALOGUE)

What does that mean?

It means it's too 'wordy'; economy of expression is key for a writer, get your point/joke across as succinctly as possible.

Say what needs to be said, and no more.

I've just thought of a way to describe how to distinguish characters.

Two characters. One is optimistic, the other is pessimistic. Both saying the same thing.

Mr. Optimistic.
Great, it's raining. My grass will grow.

Whereas Mr Pessimistic will always take the view.

Mr. Pessimistic
Great, it's raining. I'm gonna get wet.

Sorry to sound so patronising, but I think it could work as a great example to anyone else struggling with this, at any level.

Mr -?
Let's go for a walk.

Mr -?
Nah, it's cold.

Mr -?
But the exercise will warm you up.

Mr -?
I have a fireplace for that.

Quote: don rushmore @ December 15 2010, 7:06 PM GMT

It means it's too 'wordy'; economy of expression is key for a writer, get your point/joke across as succinctly as possible.

Say what needs to be said, and no more.

View original

Thought I had... All dialogue is either Story building, Character building, or joke...

But reading through it, I think the jokes might be a bit long.

Actually... A couple of the characters could share too many the same lines I suppose... More character definition and uniqueness needed there probably...

I really tried not to waste dialogue on - idle chatter which doesn't make laugh, or build character/story.

And re: should be able to cover it up and still distinguish the characters... yes... I agree.. it is hard - especially in the pilot.

Thanks

Quote: z--- @ December 15 2010, 6:44 PM GMT

I could post a few pages (Roughly = to 3-4 minutes of script) of what I wrote as an example if people want. (Not for critique purposes... just to get the fuller picture.

View original

3 or 4 minutes is a lot to read.

Just post a shortish scene and the dialogue problems (if any) will be apparent.

OK thanks.. here goes.

I've picked a portion where all the main characters say something.

Got a couple of ideas of how to make a couple of the characters more unique - and I think I can shave a talk time off some of the gags..

....................

BEN GETS A CALL... A COUPLE OF SECONDS LATER, HE HANGS UP.

BEN
OK everyone, I've been informed that Mel is just

round the corner and will be here any minute so lights

out and a big "surprise" when she comes in.

THE LIGHTS GO OFF.

CHAMPSELISE
Oh no, I forgot, I don't like the dark. Reminds me of

when I was in the womb. And I'm claustrophobic too.

BEN
OK everyone, quiet. She's here.

THE KEYS ARE HEARD IN THE LOCK. THE DOOR OPENS. MEL ENTERS THE HOUSE.

BEN
(QUIETLY) Get ready...

FOOTSTEPS ARE HEARD GOING STRAIGHT PAST THE LOUNGE WITHOUT ENTERING

BEN
(QUIETLY) Oh dear. She's in the kitchen

THE TV IN THE KITCHEN CAN BE HEARD SWITCHING ON.

EVERYONE WHISPERS TO EACH OTHER

BEN
Erm, could be here a while. If need be, do any of you

mind staying here until 6am, when she wakes up?

BOTCH
Sure, why not? and while you're at it, you want to all

line up and take it in turns to kick me in the bollocks?

CHAMPSELISE
I can't stay. My alarm is at home, I won't hear it from

here, I'll sleep right through it.

TIM
I can't stay either. I have stuff to do, places to go,

people to see.... my guinea pig'll miss me.... and

when he does, he gets all frumpy and poos all over

his cage, and not solid ones either.. those beige

watery ones.

BOTCH
Tim, you really need a girlfriend.

TIM
(DUBIOUSLY) Er yes Botch
(WHISPERS TO HIMSELF) My darling

TIM SOBS QUIETLY TO HIMSELF

JOSH
Hmmm, anticipation wise, I must say, this has to be

right up there with last month's royal gala tarts and

vicars party I went to. Tsk, and I thought nothing

would beat seeing the Queen dressed in

stockings and split crotch panties.

BOTCH
And I could be at home washing my pubes

Got it from speakers once. Moved them apart. SORTED!

There is not a huge amount of slack , but I have made a few suggestions as to where you could trim or sharpen.

In this extract the characters seem to me to be reasonably distinct.

Could do with the dialogue emerging more out of the situation - Botch's lines, which are in any case not particularly mirthful, being particularly noticeable in this respect.

My edit.

....................

BEN GETS A CALL... A COUPLE OF SECONDS LATER, HE HANGS UP.

BEN
OK Mel will be here any minute.

THE LIGHTS GO OFF.

CHAMPSELISE
I don't like the dark. Reminds me of the womb. I had dreadful claustrophobia.

BEN
She's here.

THE KEYS ARE HEARD IN THE LOCK. THE DOOR OPENS. MEL ENTERS THE HOUSE.

BEN
(QUIETLY) Get ready...

FOOTSTEPS ARE HEARD GOING STRAIGHT PAST THE LOUNGE WITHOUT ENTERING.

BEN
(QUIETLY) Oh dear. She's gone to the kitchen.

TAP RUNS

BEN
It's okay. I think she's just putting the kettle on.

MORE FOOTSTEPS, DOORS CLOSING.

BEN
Or filling her hot water bottle. If need be, do any of you mind staying here until she wakes up? She's normally out of the house before seven.

BOTCH
Sure, why not? and while you're at it, you want to all line up and take it in turns to kick me in the bollocks? {DN. You need an actual joke here.}

CHAMPSELISE
I can't stay. I'll sleep right through my alarm. It's on my bedside table - I'll never hear it from
here.

TIM
I can't stay either. I have stuff to do, places to go, people to see.... my guinea pig'll miss me.... and
when he does, he gets all frumpy and poos all over his cage, and not solid ones either.. those beige
watery ones.

BOTCH
Tim, have you considered trying a dating site. {DN. Why is this sort of character always called Tim. Frankly I resent it!}

TIM
(DUBIOUSLY) Er yes Botch
(WHISPERS TO HIMSELF) My darling {DN Not sure what is going on here.}

TIM SOBS QUIETLY TO HIMSELF

JOSH
Hmmm, anticipation wise, this has to be right up there with last month's royal gala tarts and vicars party I went to. Tsk, and I thought nothing would beat seeing the Queen dressed in stockings and split crotch panties.

BOTCH
And I could be at home washing my pubes

My edit would go something like this:

BEN GETS A CALL... A COUPLE OF SECONDS LATER, HE HANGS UP.

BEN
Okay. My spies tell me Mel's just round the corner. Lights out. And a big "Surpri-i-i-i-ise!" when she comes in.

THE LIGHTS GO OFF.

CHAMPSELISE
I don't like the dark. Reminds me of being in the womb. And I'm claustrophobic too.

BEN
Quiet! She's here!

THE KEYS ARE HEARD IN THE LOCK. THE DOOR OPENS. MEL ENTERS THE HOUSE.

BEN
(QUIETLY) Get ready...

FOOTSTEPS ARE HEARD GOING STRAIGHT PAST THE LOUNGE WITHOUT ENTERING

BEN
(QUIETLY) She's in the kitchen. I hope she's not going to straight to bed.

THE TV IN THE KITCHEN CAN BE HEARD SWITCHING ON.

BEN
If she is, are we all okay with waiting till she gets up? About 6 am?

BOTCH
Sure. And while we're waiting, everyone can pass the time by taking turns to kick me in the bollocks.

CHAMPSELISE
I can't stay. My alarm clock's at home. If I stay here. I'll sleep right through it

TIM
I can't stay either. My guinea pig'll miss me.

BOTCH (TO TIM)
You really need a girlfriend. And I should be at home washing my pubes

I've only scan read this entire thread, but this seems like a really effective edit to me VV.

This is in the wrong sub forum.

Hope my next twins are ginger fat f**ks.

Quote: Smile Or Else @ December 15 2010, 10:26 PM GMT

This is in the wrong sub forum.

View original

Thanks SOE!

Have moved.

Quote: Veronica Vestibule @ December 15 2010, 10:22 PM GMT

BOTCH
Sure. And while we're waiting, everyone can pass the time by taking turns to kick me in the bollocks.

View original

That fixes a line I thought beyond redemption.

I would agree about losing the lines you cut from the the end of the scene.