Quote: Nogget @ December 9 2010, 5:11 PM GMTYou're OK with the most extreme forms of racism then?
He said subject, not the context in which a subject is brought up or otherwise how it is approached.
Frankie Boyle's Tramadol Nights Page 9
Quote: Nogget @ December 9 2010, 5:11 PM GMTYou're OK with the most extreme forms of racism then?
When Paul Schrader and Martin Scorsese made Taxi Driver they spent some time trawling the underbelly of NY that the film reflected. In particular they were looking for a white pimp, as the studio insisted that Jodie Foster's pimp be played by a white actor and not a black one.
They couldn't find a white pimp. It's quite possible there were none. The film was made with a white actor playing Jodie Foster's pimp even though Schrader had envisioned a black actor when he wrote the role. Even though the character was named 'Sport' which was clearly a black man's name.
The black pimp became a white one because some people can't take it as it is. Usually, though not always, people who whine about racism can't take it how it is. The victims of racism know how it is.
I'm not OK with racism but I'm very f**king OK with people who complain about racism.
It's a first to find myself siding with Katie Price...
For those who suggest that Frankie Boyle is pursuing some form of brave, taboo-breaking, liberating agenda via his stand-up, could someone please explain to us less intelligent comedy fans exactly how making a nasty, unfunny jibe against a child born with a debilitating genetic disorder forms part of it?
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 10 2010, 12:05 AM GMTWhen Paul Schrader and Martin Scorsese made Taxi Driver
...Schrader was a severely paranoid with a borderline bipolar disorder, whilst Marty was sticking industrial quantities of cocaine up his hooter. In fact, part of the reason that Keitel played Sport is that he'd been neck-and-neck with De Niro for the lead and was so impressive that the film-makers wanted to keep him involved in the movie. Taxi Driver has racist undertones, of course, but the story is about personal isolation and absence of dignity. The racist (and some would say misogynist) elements of the movie flow from that initial premise, I don't think they formed part of a deliberate theme in the movie. The only "telling it like it is" in the movie are the film-makers trying to tell us what it's like to be inside Travis Bickle's mind: a more interesting and genuinely scary place to be than inside hollow shock-puppet Frankie Boyle's mind, one suspects.
Hilarious in parts and just average in others. I do love how he goes so far beyond the line sooo regularly now, or 'into tropical tundra region' that Dara once described it as on Mock The Week.
The Michael Jackson and Jade Goody stuff was rash, but funny as well. As long as it's funny, I don't have a problem with how rash it is. 
Quote: Tim Walker @ December 10 2010, 12:08 AM GMT...Schrader was a severely paranoid with a borderline bipolar disorder, whilst Marty was sticking industrial quantities of cocaine up his hooter. In fact, part of the reason that Keitel played Sport is that he'd been neck-and-neck with De Niro for the lead and was so impressive that the film-makers wanted to keep him involved in the movie. Taxi Driver has racist undertones, of course, but the story is about personal isolation and absence of dignity. The racist (and some would say misogynist) elements of the movie flow from that initial premise, I don't think they formed part of a deliberate theme in the movie. The only "telling it like it is" in the movie are the film-makers trying to tell us what it's like to be inside Travis Bickle's mind: a more interesting and genuinely scary place to be than inside hollow shock-puppet Frankie Boyle's mind, one suspects.
And your point is?
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 10 2010, 12:36 AM GMTAnd your point is?
Funny, that was exactly the question I was going to (but thought better of) asking you, Mr Taxis! (You're the one bringing up Taxi Driver for esoteric reasons...) 
I'm getting a bit fed up at the presumption that the audience go to some kinds of comedy shows to have a sort of existential discourse within themselves about their own and society's prejudices, and the comedian in question being some kind of liberal enlightened seer who shows us the hypocrisy of our society...
To assume that Frankie Boyle's audience are reacting like this is making a massive presumption.
Some people just like offensive jokes - as simple as that. A proportion of this kind of audience would be part of the "the country's too PC/caters to minorities/we can't say what we think anymore" brigade and THAT'S the release Frankie Boyle gives them. Not the voice to make them ashamed or question their prejudices but a way for them to express them with an edge of legitimacy.
Here's one of the jokes recorded at a gig.
Note the cheering and clapping from the audience as they "reflect on their own and societies attitudes". FFS!
Quote: Tim Walker @ December 10 2010, 12:42 AM GMTFunny, that was exactly the question I was going to (but thought better of) asking you, Mr Taxis! (You're the one bringing up Taxi Driver for esoteric reasons...)
My point is this: Someone's f**king you in the arse against your will with a knife at your throat and as you scrabble on the ground, trying to get away, you accidentally crush a flower with your hand. And the evil rapist looks down at you and says. 'Did you just crush that beautiful flower? You f**king monster.'
Quote: tokenfemale @ December 10 2010, 12:46 AM GMTI'm getting a bit fed up at the presumption that the audience go to some kinds of comedy shows to have a sort of existential discourse within themselves about their own and society's prejudices, and the comedian in question being some kind of liberal enlightened seer who shows us the hypocrisy of our society...
To assume that Frankie Boyle's audience are reacting like this is making a massive presumption.
Some people just like offensive jokes - as simple as that. A proportion of this kind of audience would be part of the "the country's too PC/caters to minorities/we can't say what we think anymore" brigade and THAT'S the release Frankie Boyle gives them. Not the voice to make them ashamed or question their prejudices but a way for them to express them with an edge of legitimacy.
Here's one of the jokes recorded at a gig.
Note the cheering and clapping from the audience as they "reflect on their own and societies attitudes". FFS!
Good point. One thing about that clip to make note of is just what a facile and predictable gag that is to make. Many of Boyle's jokes are not brilliantly-written in any way. The only thing that makes them stand out is that he chooses not to self-censor them in his own mind, or in front of an audience.
This does not make him a talented writer of jokes. It makes him brave, I suppose, in some respects, but to what end?
Perhaps I've misjudged Boyle and the target of his jokes is simply his audience, whom he secretly despises for laughing and cheering at the nasty, spineless gags he throws at them. There have been a fair few essays written on the psychology of the stand-up comedian. Some feel that many of them actually hate their audience and gain pleasure not from the laughter they receive, but from the feelings of power and control. So perhaps Boyle just gets a kick out of manipulating his audience and critics? It's not a great defence for the offence he causes - not by the gags (they're here today, gone tomorrow) - but by the way he legitimises bullying and cowardly humour.
There's very little different in the basic set-up of a Bernard Manning audience and a Frankie Boyle audience. The group psychology is the same: the audience - the "normals", laughing at society's outsiders, the "others".
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 10 2010, 12:58 AM GMTSomeone's f**king you in the arse against your will with a knife at your throat
Against my will, you say?
Hmmmm, I'll have to think about that one for a while...
I agree. I see Boyle as the natural heir to Chubby Brown & Manning.
It's always dressed up in this kind of "oooh it's liberal and ironic" clothing... but really - is it?
Don't f**k me about Walker, I'm tired, it's one in the morning - someone's raping you, okay...
Never seen Frankie Boyle as such so, doing a bit of research...
Can someone explain to me why this is offensive 'cos it's passed me by completely!
Quote: tokenfemale @ December 10 2010, 1:07 AM GMTI agree. I see Boyle as the natural heir to Chubby Brown & Manning.
It's up to you how you see him but there's no reason to see him like this.
Quote: tokenfemale @ December 10 2010, 1:07 AM GMTIts always dressed up in this kind of "oooh its liberal and ironic" clothing... but really- is it???
It's actually not 'dressed up' in any 'liberal or ironic clothing' at all. Are you sure you know who Frankie Boyle is?
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 10 2010, 1:11 AM GMTDon't f**k me about Walker, I'm tired, it's one in the morning - someone's raping you, okay...
Yes, yes, but define rape, Godot... I mean, I might be blatantly asking for it, going about in shorts, wiggling my bum towards the bushes... you know my type...
Quote: Oldrocker @ December 10 2010, 1:11 AM GMTCan someone explain to me why this is offensive 'cos it's passed me by completely!
I wouldn't say that is offensive. Poor taste possibly, but not offensive. What I find hard to understand about that gag is why it's considered so funny/shocking. Because it's really neither, is it?
Quote: Tim Walker @ December 10 2010, 1:21 AM GMTI wouldn't say that is offensive. Poor taste possibly, but not offensive. What I find hard to understand about that gag is why it's considered so funny/shocking. Because it's really neither, is it?
Dunno. Dunno what he's talking about.