University fees Page 7

Quote: Juan Kerr @ November 15 2010, 4:44 PM GMT

Why get a job? J.O.B. could stand for 'just over broke' - most people with jobs and all the things that go with them (bosses/long hours/insecurity/colleagues that drive them nuts/office politics/being trapped) never escape the rat race - because theyve been conditioned to be born/school/college/uni/degree/work work work work work/retire/die. There are other ways - that don't necessarily require a uni eduacation.

No - if you analise it - people need money - not a job - its just that a job is the accepted and conditioned way to acquire money. Generally employees do as little as they can get away with without being sacked and bosses pay as little as they can get away with without staff leaving. Thats how the rat race works

Too much emphasis is placed on a 'job' and not enough on becoming self reliant and enterprising. I think this is because kids are taught by teachers - and not entrepreneurs.

Re the need for academia...fine...but let people do it at theit own expense as adults - rather than studying ancient history etc - then trying to get a job in marketing.

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Some people WANT jobs because they are interested, want to make a difference, enjoy working - all sorts of reasons. Where would we get our scientists, engineers, architects, doctors, pharmacists etc if they were not interested enough in the subject to give years of their lives to studying, living on the breadline, racking up debt and then dedicating themselves to their work.

Obvioulsy SOME do, but lets be fair, most people who have worked for a decent amount of time generally moan about their lot (hence obsessions with lotteries etc). There are a heck of a lot unhappy, frustrated people out there who bought into the 'go to uni/get a degree' mantra and feel trapped and let down by the system.

The vast majority of workers have tiresome mundane jobs whgich they probably dislike. someof these spent years studying to get there.

Your example refers to professions such as engineers/scientists/pharmacists. Just becaiuse someone has a so-called exulted position, doesn't mean they are happy. I know a dentist on 100k who wishes he'd never let his dad talk him into dentistry - he hates it. he can't afford to leave the profession because of his lifestyle committments (hes in the wealth trap - not poverty trap!)

A lot of uni attendance is down to not knowing what they want to do at 18 - so they go to uni for a blast and as a delaying tactic. Plus Im sure a lot of proud mums and dads, understandably, encourage their kids and are delighted to tell people that their child is off to uni (even though their A level results wouldnt have got them in a poly 25 years ago.

So yes - SOME people love what they do - but many don't - because they got themselves trapped early on by studying and specialising in something they didnt know too much about.

Maybe. But are you saying people who didn't feel trapped into going to uni and getting a degree, people who left after A levels, are happier in their jobs?
I don't think so!
No one likes working, except the few who are lucky enough to be paid for something they're passionate about.

On my local news last week I saw a feature about a school that had converted to a learning centre. The great new idea they were plugging is that they recognise that children have different abilities and skills and learn at different rates so they have introduced practical skills lessons from the age of 13. These include woodwork and hairdressing.

Revolutionary

When I was at school subjects taught included woodwork, housekeeping, typing, hairdressing, childcare and gardening as well as academic subjects. We also did voluntary work, organised by the school. Someone in their wisdom put a stop to all that and children were leaving school without the tools to become independent adults or to make informed choices about what to do next.

Pre-uni education, if well rounded and appropriate could and indeed should be sufficient to prepare students for the jobs market, but not every skill and experience can be offered and uni is therefore the next course of action for those who wish to progress in their chosen subject but cannot do so via a work placement.

Bring back conscription. Problem sorted. Next?

Quote: zooo @ November 15 2010, 5:03 PM GMT

Maybe. But are you saying people who didn't feel trapped into going to uni and getting a degree, people who left after A levels, are happier in their jobs?
I don't think so!
No one likes working, except the few who are lucky enough to be paid for something they're passionate about.

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Perhaps I wasnt clear enough - I didnt want to differentiate between those who worked after A levels or who went to uni. I was saying that the whole culture of 'the system' is to get people 'in a slot' workwise as soon as possible. quite often that choice proves to be a huge mistake. Kids are rarely encouraged to be enterprising.

This is why many entrpreneurs didnt have a great conventional education - they werent steered down a certain path that suits society (getting a job).

Quote: chipolata @ November 15 2010, 5:41 PM GMT

Bring back conscription. Problem sorted. Next?

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For the old.

That'll solve the pension crisis.

Quote: Juan Kerr @ November 15 2010, 5:42 PM GMT

Perhaps I wasnt clear enough - I didnt want to differentiate between those who worked after A levels or who went to uni. I was saying that the whole culture of 'the system' is to get people 'in a slot' workwise as soon as possible. quite often that choice proves to be a huge mistake. Kids are rarely encouraged to be enterprising.

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Oh, I see. Yep.

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ November 15 2010, 8:27 PM GMT

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

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Awww bless. Don't listen to them Robyn just old and bitter

Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ November 15 2010, 8:27 PM GMT

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

View original

It's alright your taxes will pay for our pensions and our adult nappies.

Seriously no one questions commited students doing degrees, learning is good. Its the deranged policies of the last 2 governments that are making this country dumber than Hollyoaks

Also more money for adult education would be nice....

Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ November 15 2010, 8:27 PM GMT

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

View original

Ah...victim mentality too....another symptom of New labour's period of tenure. There must be some counselling available....oops...another one there too!

light-hearted comments by the way - (need to explain everything these days)Don't want to be considered to be bullying (ooops another!) anyone do we?

Quote: Gavin @ November 15 2010, 8:44 PM GMT

Awww bless. Don't listen to them Robyn just old and bitter

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Sooty's right. Our generation got the better deal in my opinion. It's a nightmare now for under 35s and will get worse before (if) it gets better. Governments have a lot to answer for.

Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ November 15 2010, 8:27 PM GMT

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

View original

Apology accepted! (You shouldn't let it bother you, though! It's just a pointless thread on a frivilous internet forum!)

Quote: Scatterbrained Floozy @ November 15 2010, 8:27 PM GMT

This thread is just depressing me. Sorry for doing a degree, and in something 'useless', sorry for still living at home and so being immature, and sorry for taking someone else's job?

View original

Don't be a silly- noone is saying students are at fault- they're absolutely not. The system is all wrong, and it's just a shame it's your generation who is stuck in the middle of it.

Having to goto to uni because a degree is a minimun for so many jobs and thus being pushed into 1000s of debt (not to mention how it double excludes already disadvantaged kids)

thats so unbelievably nutty it twists my melon

The modern education system is a hopeless conveyor belt ending with an increasingly worthless degree how ever bright and hard working you are.