Quote: Timbo @ November 14 2010, 11:16 PM GMTUnless there are an impressive number of interesting ways in which getting it wrong could result in someone dying, jobs are best learnt by doing them. No-one needs a degree in golf course management or, whisper it, media studies.
I did Media Studies and it's certainly done me no harm. I was picked for the job I'm in now because I had a degree in Media Studies. I have applied the skills I've learnt also (half of the 1st and 2nd year were practical).
Quote: sootyj @ November 14 2010, 11:30 PM GMTStudy for it's own sake to increase the sum of human knowledge is a good and worthwhile thing.
Definitely.
Quote: Nat Wicks @ November 14 2010, 11:32 PM GMTDegrees shouldn't be the standard. Why not just extend bloody secondary school to last until you're 21?
Quite like that idea!
Quote: EllieJP @ November 14 2010, 11:34 PM GMTI did Media Studies and it's certainly done me no harm. I was picked for the job I'm in now because I had a degree in Media Studies. I have applied the skills I've learnt also (half of the 1st and 2nd year were practical).
I am sure that your degree in media studies has done you much more good than mine in Medieval History. My point was really that you should not need a degree in media studies to get a job in the media, or any other specialist degree for a career where expertise can be learnt to on the job without killing someone. You learn a lot faster doing a job for real.
Quote: Timbo @ November 15 2010, 8:22 AM GMTI am sure that your degree in media studies has done you much more good than mine in Medieval History. My point was really that you should not need a degree in media studies to get a job in the media, or any other specialist degree for a career where expertise can be learnt to on the job without killing someone. You learn a lot faster doing a job for real.
I do agree to some extent, but University is more than just the course. It helps you grow as a person and learn responsibility. I wouldn't have been ready to go into work at 18.
Quote: EllieJP @ November 15 2010, 9:36 AM GMTI do agree to some extent, but University is more than just the course. It helps you grow as a person and learn responsibility. I wouldn't have been ready to go into work at 18.
Theres other cheaper more beneficial schemes like CSv
Quote: sootyj @ November 14 2010, 11:30 PM GMTUni as a place to arse about for 3 years is an utter waste.
The last Labour government lessened the stock of a degree massively by opening it to all.
This is because it's cheaper for the government and the tax payer than, potentially, having them on 3 years of welfare benefits and more students creates more jobs for lecturers and other university staff.
Quote: Tony Cowards @ November 15 2010, 11:20 AM GMTThis is because it's cheaper for the government and the tax payer than, potentially, having them on 3 years of welfare benefits and more students creates more jobs for lecturers and other university staff.
I said that!
Training or education should have some sort of an aim
Quote: EllieJP @ November 15 2010, 9:36 AM GMTI do agree to some extent, but University is more than just the course. It helps you grow as a person and learn responsibility. I wouldn't have been ready to go into work at 18.
But wouldnt getting a job, with adults in the real world - and learning that way help you even more? Uni is a cosseted, false bubble of a world - it just delays the inevitable day of reckoning when people have to enter the dog-fight and make their own way in the world without loans/grants/mummy and daddy pampering. If anything |I think it softens people more thanif they went to work at 18, or even earlier.
I wasnt ready to work at 16 - but had to! I wsnt at 30 - but had too. Chinese kids aren't ready to make Nike shoes at 8 (or less) - but have to!
The massive growth in uni attendance these 10 or so years have been down to being able to massage unemployment stats - with Blair and Campbell's classic spin of selling it to the masses as 'New labour give everyone the chance to attend uni and prosper'
Saw a brilliant RSA animate video on YT that sums up old-fashioned thinking on education for me
Watch it - fascinating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
Ironically, these series of videos hold peoples' attention becasue of the punchy delivery - and fascinating graphic.
Quote: Juan Kerr @ November 15 2010, 4:25 PM GMTBut wouldnt getting a job, with adults in the real world - and learning that way help you even more?
If you only see 'learning' as life experience.
Some people want academia. You can't learn that out in the real world working. You have to actually read books!
(Some of which can of course technically be read at home without necessarily needing university, but you see what I mean.)
I know that a lot of places won't even look at your CV without a degree either. How are you meant to get a decent job without a degree nowadays, let alone be looked at for an interview?
Quote: EllieJP @ November 15 2010, 4:29 PM GMTI know that a lot of places won't even look at your CV without a degree either. How are you meant to get a decent job without a degree nowadays, let alone be looked at for an interview?
This was my point- I think that's the wrong way to do it. I don't think a degree SHOULD be the base line. The base line should be your GCSEs, then anything else is a bonus. Unless of course the job genuinely requires a degree level education, like a micro biologist or something of the like.
Depends what kind of jobs you're talking about. Some casual jobs you might want just to earn a bit of extra cash I'm fairly sure will reject you because you have a degree.
"But wouldnt getting a job, with adults in the real world - and learning that way help you even more? Uni is a cosseted, false bubble of a world - it just delays the inevitable day of reckoning when people have to enter the dog-fight and make their own way in the world without loans/grants/mummy and daddy pampering. If anything |I think it softens people more thanif they went to work at 18, or even earlier."
I don't think many 16 year olds would be living on their own, managing their own finances, doing their own washing and cooking and they would probably still
be living with mummy and daddy.
Quote: zooo @ November 15 2010, 4:35 PM GMTDepends what kind of jobs you're talking about. Some casual jobs you might want just to earn a bit of extra cash I'm fairly sure will reject you because you have a degree.
Yup, that happens.
Heh. I was trying to get a casual job for ages, tried missing off my degree, and got one straight away. Might have been a coincidence, but I think not.
Quote: EllieJP @ November 15 2010, 4:29 PM GMTI know that a lot of places won't even look at your CV without a degree either. How are you meant to get a decent job without a degree nowadays, let alone be looked at for an interview?
Why get a job? J.O.B. could stand for 'just over broke' - most people with jobs and all the things that go with them (bosses/long hours/insecurity/colleagues that drive them nuts/office politics/being trapped) never escape the rat race - because theyve been conditioned to be born/school/college/uni/degree/work work work work work/retire/die. There are other ways - that don't necessarily require a uni eduacation.
No - if you analise it - people need money - not a job - its just that a job is the accepted and conditioned way to acquire money. Generally employees do as little as they can get away with without being sacked and bosses pay as little as they can get away with without staff leaving. Thats how the rat race works
Too much emphasis is placed on a 'job' and not enough on becoming self reliant and enterprising. I think this is because kids are taught by teachers - and not entrepreneurs.
Re the need for academia...fine...but let people do it at theit own expense as adults - rather than studying ancient history etc - then trying to get a job in marketing.