University fees

Kinda surprising but quite impressive that the revoloution started there.
But what do people think king a little to high about increased university fees? Are students being over burdened by a massive debt? or in these straightened times are they suckling a little to hard on the public teet?

Sootyj sez.

1 No one should have to leave uni with 50 grand in debt, nor should they be put off attending by this. Financial apparhteid in education already exists lets not make it law.

2 But our universities can not maintain an international standard of education on current funding, nor can they realistically ask the state for more funds.

3 Blocking them from raising fees means more and more of our top rank uni places going overseas.

4 50% of school leavers going to uni is both pointless and a con for hiding unemployment statistics.

Sootyj suggests

1 A sliding scale of full funding and maintenance grants based on school results, work experience etc. In addition to a similar set based on wealth. If you want to get your uni paid for prove it's a worthwhile investment of tax payers funds.

2 More investment in subsidising part time degrees. Making it easier to earn and study.

3 Tax breaks for companies that sponsor uni studies or give students study leave (increased if in a subject not related to the business of the company.)

4 Reinstate the direct grant from government to universities.

What do you think?

How did the government afford it when uni was free?

Less people going.

50% of uni places paid for by starving adult education is another Labor idea for which they should be barred from power for a 100 years.

For a start, I don't think that students being 'put off' university by higher fees is an accurate way to phrase it, no matter how many times the words are used in this context. To graduate with that much debt is not only inordinate, but also impossible for some. I have a part-time job, very supportive parents and still live at home, yet am dreading how I'll manage to pay back all my fees and still have enough to live on.
Besides this, we worked out how much an hour we are spending to go to uni, based on the current tuition fees level and an 8 hour contact week. It's around £20 an hour, which is ridiculous for a start without taking into account the number of times lecturers are late, absent, or spend time 'learning your names'.
It's not only tuition fees that students have to worry about, either. The cost of living is very high, as is the cost of travel, and my books cost about £80-£100 a term before the uni sell us compulsory course packs.
It's also ridiculous that they have this contingency for "exceptional circumstances" in which universities can charge up to £9,000 a year tuition. Are there rules about these circumstances, or do you just get granted them for being at the tops of league tables? Being rich enough to attend and being clever enough to are not the same thing. This may just cause a downward spiral of people entering better universities but having no concept of how much it's costing to keep them there, and so not working as hard as previous alumni, sinking the universities down the charts.
As one of my tutors pointed out to us in an £20 lecture and again in a £20 seminar, it will also mean that those who pay more may be able to have a say in changing the courses and modules on offer, restricting my course for example to Shakespeare, Carol Ann Duffy and Ian McEwan. While this might seem democratic, it just allows other course options to fall by the wayside as unimportant and marginal, when in fact so many of them represent the key-stones of literature which shouldn't be ignored.

Completely agree it's a problemof 2 halves. The old conservative gov funded me to do an utterly worthless degree. From which I neither learned anything nor improved my earning capacity.

The decider on uni education should be academic or personal potential not financial.

It is both unreasonable to make it unaffordable as it is to expect every school leaver to attend.

Not sure how Joel's first suggestion would work, but otherwise I concur.

nb whats so bad about part time or later life study?

I got far, far more from being a (supposedly) mature student in my own time.

Quote: Timbo @ November 12 2010, 1:39 PM GMT

Not sure how Joel's first suggestion would work, but otherwise I concur.

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I'm thinking a more generous version of how my dear old granddad got to uni.
Apply for a course and apply for a grant.

Funding isn't universal but is available to a large number of people in the 100,000s. With tax breaks for companies that offer similar schemes.

Weeding out lazy arses getting bad grades who want to study media studies at shit uni and mostly get pissed is a good thing.

N.B. the above person was me (a long, long time ago...)

Quote: sootyj @ November 12 2010, 1:37 PM GMT

The old conservative gov funded me to do an utterly worthless degree. From which I neither learned anything nor improved my earning capacity.

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Yes, I rather suspect that the three years I wasted at Uni may actually have cost me.

Quote: sootyj @ November 12 2010, 1:42 PM GMT

Weeding out lazy arses getting bad grades who want to study media studies at shit uni and mostly get pissed is a good thing.

View original

Best days of me life.

And the state to the tune of 1000s not to mention lost taxes when I could have been earning.

Another thing is companies should not be allowed to automatically suggest a degree on job specs without justifying it.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ November 12 2010, 1:44 PM GMT

Best days of me life.

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You used to be me?

Yes it was fun. Funny old John "likes peas"Major paid for it!

But more seriously a whole generation of less well off not trying for uni, or study away from home would be a tragedy.

Quote: sootyj @ November 12 2010, 1:47 PM GMT

But more seriously a whole generation of less well off not trying for uni, or study away from home would be a tragedy.

View original

In the great scheme of things, it's not that much of a tragedy.

It is on so many levels

Don't see a lot wrong with your thoughts on the subject Sooty.

I had a £5,000 student loan. I was lucky enough that my tuition fees were paid for and my accomodation - and I worked throughout uni, yet still had a £5000 loan!

There's no reason bright hardworking and motivated students should pay

The government should be building up vocational training

Nvqs are poor joke