Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 12:55 PM BSThttp://news.uk.msn.com/world/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=154657987
Irony is now broken.
Well it was awarded by Americans.
I read the news today oh boy! Page 229
Quote: john lucas 101 @ September 14 2010, 2:28 PM BSTYeah, and 'Nick Nick'. I wonder if the play will have a fair and balanced view?
Don't see why not. He was always fair on Give Us A Break.
Quote: chipolata @ September 14 2010, 2:33 PM BSTDon't see why not. He was always fair on Give Us A Break.
That's surely due for a reboot. With Vernon Kay.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 1:12 PM BSTErrors which cost millions of lives
Exaggerate much? You're off by a factor of at least 20.
Nah the death toll of Iraq was set between 1-2 million by a number of highly respected medical journals.
Do you want me to dredge up the link?
As for Afghanistan the figure in terms of destruction of infrastrcuture is thickly into the 1000s.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 5:57 PM BSTNah the death toll of Iraq was set between 1-2 million by a number of highly respected medical journals.
Absolutely incorrect and those studies have been thoroughly debunked.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/beyond/exaggerated-orb/
The best-sourced data puts the number at about 100,000 and let's not forget that the overwhelming majority of those deaths were not caused by coalition forces. They were caused by murderous Iraqis with considerable assistance from Iran, Syria and our friends in al Qaeda.
Well leaving aside that those deaths were made possible largely by the complete dissolution of all courts and police forces in the first weeks (something not needed in Japan or Nazi Germany).
Then you're right.
Hell Blair claimed the death rate dropped after the war.
Iraq is a happy democratic light unto the middle east, which all of it's neighbours ernestly want to be like.
No one has acid thrown in their face for going to school, the bodys of kidnap victims don't pile up, no drug addled US squaddie on too many tours shot up a car at a road block.
And the UK didn't for the first time ever effectively suspend the right to assylum for an entire country.
Albeit the Lancet figures of 600,000 seem the most respected and realistic.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 6:18 PM BSTWell leaving aside that those deaths were made possible largely by the complete dissolution of all courts and police forces in the first weeks (something not needed in Japan or Nazi Germany).
Those deaths were made possible by power-hungry religious sects, terrorist organizations and Iraq's neighbors, all of whom had an interest in causing as much bloodshed as possible. You'll notice that it's still going on after combat operations ceased and the Pakistanis are doing quite a good job at it even without the presence of coalition troops.
Ironically, this was all made possible by deposing a brutal dictator with the actual blood of millions on his hands.
Take away the courts and police in the US, emasculate the government.
And you'll see looting and bodies hanging from lamp posts in a week.
No society is more than 3 meals from anarchy.
Yes Sadam was a monster and yes he killed millions.
But the sad wreck dragged from a hole in the ground was very much past tense.
Using his crimes as a veil to cover large scale theft, murder and regional bullying is vile in extremis.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 6:18 PM BSTno drug addled US squaddie on too many tours shot up a car at a road block.
There are no "squadies" in the U.S. military and you'll find very, very few of them are stupid/careless enough to be on duty while under the influence of anything stronger than black coffee. You'll also find that there wouldn't be a single death at checkpoints if it weren't for terrorists' love of suicide bombs.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 6:37 PM BSTTake away the courts and police in the US, emasculate the government.
And you'll see looting and bodies hanging from lamp posts in a week.
Horseshit.
But the sad wreck dragged from a hole in the ground was very much past tense.
After he was removed from power by coalition forces, of course. He's still be murdering and meddling if the invasion hadn't taken place.
Using his crimes as a veil to cover large scale theft, murder and regional bullying is vile in extremis.
What did the coalition steal and who did they murder?
Quote: DaButt @ September 14 2010, 7:43 PM BSTHorseshit.
No, I think that's probably true of any country; take away law and order and you're going to get a lot of bad stuff happening.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ September 14 2010, 8:01 PM BSTNo, I think that's probably true of any country; take away law and order and you're going to get a lot of bad stuff happening.
It depends on the mindset of the individuals involved. Do you really think that you would take an electric drill to your neighbor's face if the cops stopped driving down your street? Would you strap a bomb to yourself and detonate it in the middle of a shopping center if you thought no one would stop you?
Quote: DaButt @ September 14 2010, 7:43 PM BSTWhat did the coalition steal and who did they murder?
Oil?
The pipelines where no one was measuring the output for about a year.
But to be honest it was mostly the nobd contracts that allowed contractors to steal money which could be measured in tonnage.
Quote: DaButt @ September 14 2010, 8:11 PM BSTIt depends on the mindset of the individuals involved. Do you really think that you would take an electric drill to your neighbor's face if the cops stopped driving down your street? Would you strap a bomb to yourself and detonate it in the middle of a shopping center if you thought no one would stop you?
Not tomorrow. Not next week.
But if the police were gone, if it was dark and cold and those I loved were hungry.
If my streets were full of foreigners with gones my life at their mercy?
Yes.
But you only need an obdurate minority to flourish.
Quote: sootyj @ September 14 2010, 8:29 PM BSTOil?
Nobody stole any f**king oil from Iraq.
But if the police were gone, if it was dark and cold and those I loved were hungry.
If my streets were full of foreigners with gones my life at their mercy?
Yes.
You're a pathetic excuse for a human being if you'll happily slaughter your neighbors because of ancient religious differences when the cops turn their back.