2 Halfs Of Men Page 3

Quote: Leevil @ September 14 2010, 1:15 PM BST

Honestly, this discussion has took place many, many times on here before. It never ends well. Can we just agree to disagree.

Soots, you've gave your crit, no need to reply to this thread now.

The makers of this video. Take any criticism off here with a pinch of salt. No one is trying to be personal, they are just offering their opinion and time for free. Take it for what it's worth. If you're offering it up for review, and especially on the internet. You'll have to expect all sorts of abuse - good and bad.

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Thank you. This is an intelligent comment, and one I agree with. We are completely aware that people will criticise. As you know though we are pretty new to this forum and were not expecting a shitstorm of sneering. After this happened the first couple of times we thought we were wasting our time posting on here but we thought we'd give it another go and just got the same. The point is that we have NO budget and so it is pointless to criticise the lo-fi filming. As for the scriptedness I agree to an extent that this would be a good idea but at the same time I am of the belief that if comedy is too scripted it can begin to feel a little unnatural. If anyone would like to discuss this further I'd be very happy to but otherwise I'll gladly agree to disagree.

Thanking you.

Now David. Don't go off topic. You've had your say. Go critique in another thread OR take this outside.

Quote: David Bussell @ September 14 2010, 1:20 PM BST

I didn't laugh once. I couldn't care less about "rules" but that's a failing for me in terms of comedy. Maybe I'm the "wrong audience", I don't know, but you made your sketch available for critique and got a personal opinion.

Stop asking people to tell you what's good about your work and consider why people are only talking about what's bad. If you're able to put aside perceived prejudice and listen to what people are saying you might come away with some ways to improve your future output.

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Ok, fair enough. You didn't like it - I get that. I just find it strange that when we posted the same vid on YouTube we got loads of positive comments, a number of which were from people who don't know us. Maybe it's just a different audience, I don't know. I guess all this proves is that Nietzsche was right and it's all subjective.

I managed to get the video working, so here goes my critique. And I assume I'm your target demographic (20 something stoner who doesn't like 2 1/2 Men, but does like beards- that's me!). This is from a viewers perspective, as I am not a proper writer like a lot of people on here. I was going to make a special effort to be nice, but I have found your posts to be loathesome and feel that you don't deserve mollycoddling, no matter how bad I feel.

Immediate view was that the setting, camera and sound was awful. The song, whilst I assume it was meant to be out of key, wasn't funny and lasted too long. You should have tried to parody the 2 1/2 men opening sequence with the mic and the suits and the lady singing. I'm sure you must know a lady.

After that the next thing that I noticed were your fantastic beards. They're the best part of it. They don't fit the video, but they're magnificent.

Next I noticed the outfits- do you realise that for £5 you could have gone to any charity shop and bought an outfit that would look exactly like one of Sheen's in 2 1/2? It makes a gigantic difference that you haven't even attempted to make any nod towards the look of the show.

Next, the acting. It was terrible. But that doesn't always have to be a bad thing. You can make a cracking parody of something by exaggerating the bad aspects of poor acting, but it wasn't enough either way.

The material. Apart from the line "homo land" I didn't laugh once. And I only laughed at the word homo because I have a child brain.

Your callback of "YOU'VE got a girlfrield" was the only thing which was well observed- it is a very common tool of shows like 2 1/2 to use this kind of exaggerated callback. But you executed it poorly because of the other elements of the video.

Also, Indian Bob (?) corpsing for about a minute didn't help anything.

What is obvious from the way you are defending yourself like a momma grizzly, is that you care a lot about the piece. I like the premise- the idea appeals to me- so give it some love and attention and make it into something good.

OOh and the 'to camera' moments were out of place. I can't remember any US Sitcoms in my TV watching lifetime which have done this, unless they were parodying something else.

Sorry if I have poorly spelled, I can't be bothered to go back through and edit!

Quote: Boomerang Jones @ September 14 2010, 1:23 PM BST

we have NO budget and so it is pointless to criticise the lo-fi filming.

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What equipment were you using? A webcam?

Camcorders are very cheap at the moment, if you could stretch a little bit further.

Quote: Nat Wicks @ September 14 2010, 1:35 PM BST

I managed to get the video working, so here goes my critique. And I assume I'm your target demographic (20 something stoner who doesn't like 2 1/2 Men, but does like beards- that's me!). This is from a viewers perspective, as I am not a proper writer like a lot of people on here. I was going to make a special effort to be nice, but I have found your posts to be loathesome and feel that you don't deserve mollycoddling, no matter how bad I feel.

Immediate view was that the setting, camera and sound was awful. The song, whilst I assume it was meant to be out of key, wasn't funny and lasted too long. You should have tried to parody the 2 1/2 men opening sequence with the mic and the suits and the lady singing. I'm sure you must know a lady.

After that the next thing that I noticed were your fantastic beards. They're the best part of it. They don't fit the video, but they're magnificent.

Next I noticed the outfits- do you realise that for £5 you could have gone to any charity shop and bought an outfit that would look exactly like one of Sheen's in 2 1/2? It makes a gigantic difference that you haven't even attempted to make any nod towards the look of the show.

Next, the acting. It was terrible. But that doesn't always have to be a bad thing. You can make a cracking parody of something by exaggerating the bad aspects of poor acting, but it wasn't enough either way.

The material. Apart from the line "homo land" I didn't laugh once. And I only laughed at the word homo because I have a child brain.

Your callback of "YOU'VE got a girlfrield" was the only thing which was well observed- it is a very common tool of shows like 2 1/2 to use this kind of exaggerated callback. But you executed it poorly because of the other elements of the video.

Also, Indian Bob (?) corpsing for about a minute didn't help anything.

What is obvious from the way you are defending yourself like a momma grizzly, is that you care a lot about the piece. I like the premise- the idea appeals to me- so give it some love and attention and make it into something good.

OOh and the 'to camera' moments were out of place. I can't remember any US Sitcoms in my TV watching lifestyle which have done this, unless they were parodying something else.

Sorry if I have poorly spelled, I can't be bothered to go back through and edit!

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Ok, thank you for your comments. Now I'm going to let my mask slip and just be completely honest. I really didn't mean to be loathsome in any of my comments and didn't mean it to seem like I was personally attacking anyone, I've just been going through a bad time lately and so am probably taking things to heart a little more than usual. With this video we were not trying to make a perfect parody of Two and a Half Men, we were taking that as our premise to make a spoof of unimaginative American comedy. I really do value these comments as you have gone beyond the call of duty to explain fully what worked for you and what didn't. I'd like to apologise to everyone if I seemed confrontational but most creative people are very sensitive and when you've made the effort to get something out there and people just completely dismiss it you do take it to heart sometimes. We would love to have a bigger budget so we could film in different locations and with better sound and costumes and everything but we just don't have a lot of money at all, and make what jokes about that you will anyone who would like to. We've heard them all. There does seem to be a lot of love for our beards, which is nice because we work very hard cultivating them, and I'm sure we will post other videos on here. Thank you again, Nat. It's obvious you took time over this.

Quote: Nogget @ September 14 2010, 1:46 PM BST

What equipment were you using? A webcam?

Camcorders are very cheap at the moment, if you could stretch a little bit further.

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Can't stretch that much further to be honest, but it is something we've talked about getting hold of a camcorder. Yeah, it was a webcam. I dunno, we love the fact that it's so badly filmed - adds to the charm for the right audience, but we realise also that most people in 'Positions of Power' in the comedy industry would not share that view.

Quote: Boomerang Jones @ September 14 2010, 1:12 PM BST

And no, I don't just want people to say how great our work is but don't want people with arched eyebrows who think they're better than everyone else to just slap it down without thinking how anything in it might work. I sucked up your criticism and spat it out. Suck it up.

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Did I say I was better than you? No, I talked only in terms of your work. I watched it (all of it for my sins) and gave an honest appraisal. If you don't like what I have to say don't accept it and move on but please don't paint me as an elitist because your video wasn't to my taste.

Quote: Boomerang Jones @ September 14 2010, 1:52 PM BST

Ok, thank you for your comments. Now I'm going to let my mask slip and just be completely honest. I really didn't mean to be loathsome in any of my comments and didn't mean it to seem like I was personally attacking anyone, I've just been going through a bad time lately and so am probably taking things to heart a little more than usual. With this video we were not trying to make a perfect parody of Two and a Half Men, we were taking that as our premise to make a spoof of unimaginative American comedy. I really do value these comments as you have gone beyond the call of duty to explain fully what worked for you and what didn't. I'd like to apologise to everyone if I seemed confrontational but most creative people are very sensitive and when you've made the effort to get something out there and people just completely dismiss it you do take it to heart sometimes. We would love to have a bigger budget so we could film in different locations and with better sound and costumes and everything but we just don't have a lot of money at all, and make what jokes about that you will anyone who would like to. We've heard them all. There does seem to be a lot of love for our beards, which is nice because we work very hard cultivating them, and I'm sure we will post other videos on here. Thank you again, Nat. It's obvious you took time over this.

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Listen don't worry about it- I know exactly what you mean about being protective over what you're creating, I'm exactly the same.

What you do need to understand though is that every single post on here, regardless of how tactful it is, had a valid point.

I know what you mean about the money scenario- I helped some friends our with some sketch acting in Uni, and they had literally no budget too. What they did do though was beg and borrow what they needed- I think 5 sketches only cost them £3.50 by the end of it. I'm sure you must know someone who owns a camcorder you can lend for half a day? I'm sure someone's throwing out some hideous old man outfits you can raid? You never know until you find out.

The benefit of putting in a tiny bit of effort with this sort of stuff is that it will become much more easily recognisable as the style you're parodying- and mean that watchers can focus on the other parts of the video instead.

Try not to take any of these comments to heart, and keep writing. You just need to learn the craft.

Quote: Leevil @ September 14 2010, 1:25 PM BST

Now David. Don't go off topic. You've had your say. Go critique in another thread OR take this outside.

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Sorry, was that meant for me? I'd already typed out my last comment before reading this so I apologise. I will say in my defence that I never strayed off topic though.

Perhaps a mobile phone would give improved quality?

Quote: Nogget @ September 14 2010, 2:01 PM BST

Perhaps a mobile phone would give improved quality?

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I was thinking that.

Quote: Boomerang Jones @ September 14 2010, 1:52 PM BST

Ok, thank you for your comments. Now I'm going to let my mask slip and just be completely honest. I really didn't mean to be loathsome in any of my comments and didn't mean it to seem like I was personally attacking anyone, I've just been going through a bad time lately and so am probably taking things to heart a little more than usual. With this video we were not trying to make a perfect parody of Two and a Half Men, we were taking that as our premise to make a spoof of unimaginative American comedy. I really do value these comments as you have gone beyond the call of duty to explain fully what worked for you and what didn't. I'd like to apologise to everyone if I seemed confrontational but most creative people are very sensitive and when you've made the effort to get something out there and people just completely dismiss it you do take it to heart sometimes. We would love to have a bigger budget so we could film in different locations and with better sound and costumes and everything but we just don't have a lot of money at all, and make what jokes about that you will anyone who would like to. We've heard them all. There does seem to be a lot of love for our beards, which is nice because we work very hard cultivating them, and I'm sure we will post other videos on here. Thank you again, Nat. It's obvious you took time over this.

Can't stretch that much further to be honest, but it is something we've talked about getting hold of a camcorder. Yeah, it was a webcam. I dunno, we love the fact that it's so badly filmed - adds to the charm for the right audience, but we realise also that most people in 'Positions of Power' in the comedy industry would not share that view.

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Okay, I'm going to go back on what I just said about making further comments because I honestly don't think I'm going to say anything contentious here. I hear what you're saying, Boomerang, and I appreciate as much as any writer how much someone brutally prodding your baby feels. It's hard not to take it to heart. Truth be told, if you were to go back to my first posts on this forum you might find I've been guilty of the exact same thing.

The mistake you've made - and I'm trying to be helpful, I really am - is to parody something you simply don't have the budget to parody. With the equipment you've got you couldn't even send up Marion and Geoff to any great effect. I'm not saying you can't be funny with a webcam alone, there are thousands of examples of people doing exactly that, I'm saying you wrote something beyond your production means. It's an honest mistake - you got excited about the prospect of filming and jumped in before you properly explored your options. My advice, were you to take it, would be for you to write something you can achieve with what you have. Robert Rodriguez had a suit, a tortoise and a guitar case and wrote El Mariachi. You have a webcam, some friends and some magnificent beards. Rather than trying to take on a big budget US production, think about how you can work with your limitations. I hope you see that I'm not trying to push your buttons here - I'm just offering some advice.

A couple of technical suggestions.

Quick cutting always improves low/no-budget films. A common mistake is to have static scenes that just go on way too long with the camera not moving. You can shoot a five minute dialogue exchange, and simply use bog-standard video editing software to zoom in on certain sections for close-ups, or mid-shots, or whatever, then plonk 'em into the scene to give it a bit of punch. It takes very minimal effort to do this, and it's well worth it. The scene is unchanged from the shoot, but because the editing is offering new visuals every 30 seconds to a minute or so, it seems faster.

Rehearse a scene at least once, and shoot everything at least twice. You'll have more rushes to chose from in the edit, and you can cut out corpsing, fluffed lines, etc.

American sitcoms have cutaways for scene changes. To imitate this, film the outside of your home for a few minutes, and simply drop a few seconds of the footage between your scene changes.

Use as much lighting as you can, and set your camera to a non-natural light mode; if at all possible, have the lights (lamps, etc) up high, to avoid casting shadows. If your actors are sat on a sofa throughout the scene, for instance, you can set the camera position to slightly above their eyeline (camera pointing down) and above and behind them you can be throwing as much light down as possible. This doesn't cost money (you're not hiring halogen lamps) but does take a bit of, well, producing and directing.

The performances need a bit more energy and commitment. Know the lines, try to stay in character at all times, be generous and *always acting* with co-performers. An acting coach suggested that -- for this kind of thing -- it's a good idea to jog on the spot before the cameras roll so you hit the scene fast and give it complete focus.

Lastly, I'd love to write a three minute sketch about your beards. Please make this happen.

EDIT: Eek, just read that you filmed everything on a webcam, so my technical camera suggestions aren't applicable until you get a digi-cam! Sorry. If you d get a camera, invest in (or create a makeshift) tripod, so that you get a smooth shoot. You can go handheld at any time you want, but a few good-looking wide shots are always a valuable thing to have.

Quote: David Bussell @ September 14 2010, 1:59 PM BST

Sorry, was that meant for me? I'd already typed out my last comment before reading this so I apologise. I will say in my defence that I never strayed off topic though.

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This thread was starting to became a discussion about criticism, rather than criticising the video itself.

Quote: David Bussell @ September 14 2010, 1:56 PM BST

Did I say I was better than you? No, I talked only in terms of your work. I watched it (all of it for my sins) and gave an honest appraisal. If you don't like what I have to say don't accept it and move on but please don't paint me as an elitist because your video wasn't to my taste.

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No, you didn't say you were better than me. It was just implied that you thought so in some of your comments, and apologies that I typed an instant reply before taking some deep breaths and thinking about what my rational response should be. Next time I will do this. I'm thinking this may be the wrong forum for posting mine and Attaxwrongess's work on as although some of this advice we could apply to our videos it's clear that our sense of humour is not the same as many peoples' who post on here and if that's the case it wouldn't matter how good the camera work or anything was. A perfect example to illustrate my point is in Stewart Lee's latest book he spoke of a gig he did in New Zealand to a fairly disinterested audience, many of whom were english rugby fans waiting to watch a game. His material, the same material which had gone down a storm at many other gigs, went down like a lead balloon and only when he mentioned fingering in passing did someone shout "Now you're getting somewhere!!" I've done a bit of stand-up myself and the same material that went down just OK in one venue went down really well in another. As I say, it's all subjective. Having said that I'm kind of determined for you guys to like something that me and attaxwrongess do and so I'm sure we will post on here again. Perhaps I'll even post some of my written stand-up material at some point.