Quote: Tuumble @ August 4 2010, 11:23 PM BSTIf anyone wants a largely depressing wallow in England's own sense of footballing importance I heartingly recommend 'Don't Mention the Score: A Masochist's History of England's National Football Team' by Simon Briggs.
Really well researched and presented in digestible and fun way.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Mention-Score-Masochists-Englands/dp/1847244092
Looks good. I wonder if there'll be a post WC2010 edition? Now that I would love to read !
Quote: Jack Massey @ August 4 2010, 11:50 PM BSTHasn't it always been this, we needed one goal here, one goal there though with the exception of this years 2010 dismal cup exit. In 1996, we lost on penalties. In 1998 we lost on penalties. In 2000, we went out due to giving away a last minute penalty. In 2002 we lost to the winners Brazil in high temperatures due to a fluke Ronaldinho goal. In 2004 we lost on penalties. In 2006 we lost on penalties. In 2008 we were knocked out in qualifying, by one goal. I don't think foreign imports has effected the England team since 1966, it's just the same old thing that's always been the problem, we've just not had the answer when we've needed it most.
That last sentence probably sums it up Jack, unfortunately.
Let's just say that the number of foreign imports haven't exactly helped but they've not hindered talent coming through that much either. On reflection the bigger worry I believe is with the coaches as young English managers simply are not being given the opportunity to test themselves. OK, Fergie is Scottish, but can you imagine United giving his successor 4-5 years to win a trophy now?
Look at how long new English appointments have got in the Premier League in recent seasons. Paul Ince and Sammy Lee lasted barely a few weeks and Alladyce didn't get much longer despite being an experienced guy while at Newcastle. There's so much pressure to stay in the Prem it's ridiculous.
The Premier League will eat itself you mark my words...
Charity Shield this weekend! And it's Man Utd vs Chelsea. Again.
YAY!
I don't think foreign imports has effected the England team since 1966,
"have"
"affected"
Come on Aaron, I can't do it all myself !
Quote: Tuumble @ August 5 2010, 12:05 AM BSTThat last sentence probably sums it up Jack, unfortunately.
Let's just say that the number of foreign imports haven't exactly helped but they've not hindered talent coming through that much either. On reflection the bigger worry I believe is with the coaches as young English managers simply are not being given the opportunity to test themselves. OK, Fergie is Scottish, but can you imagine United giving his successor 4-5 years to win a trophy now?
Look at how long new English appointments have got in the Premier League in recent seasons. Paul Ince and Sammy Lee lasted barely a few weeks and Alladyce didn't get much longer despite being an experienced guy while at Newcastle. There's so much pressure to stay in the Prem it's ridiculous.
The Premier League will eat itself you mark my words...
Never mind the foreign v home-grown debate, your final sentence points directly to the current problems of the national side. The premier league is all. But part of the problem is also that by having an exciting league that the world wants to see (even if it isn't *quite* as exciting as Sky HD 4D WD40 would have us think) we get hoodwinked into thinking our players and teams are better than they really are. I'm with Jack on this. In fact, during this summer's debacle with friends I totted up how many decent WC finals performances we had witnessed IN OUR LIFETIME. We are all in our early 40s, so '66 and '70 are out. '74 and '78 we didn't qualify. '82 I'll give you the game v France. '86 you can have Poland, Paraguay and Argentina (in defeat). '90 you can only have Germany (defeat again) - England weren't any good in the group games and were outplayed by Belgium and Cameroon in knockout rounds. '94 we didn't qualify. '98 had a couple of reasonable shows and a decent one in defeat to Argentina. Since then? England haven't actually played *well* against anybody in a World Cup Finals match. At best, I'm looking at 6 or 7 decent performances in my lifetime and 3 of those we lost.
Have a good season, folks!
One thing I don't want is a mid-winter break. It will just destroy all the traditions of English football - and instead of having a break they'll go and play exhibition games halfway round the world.
Who really cares about the national side anyway? Only girls and bankers who think football only happens once every four years.
(Am I repeating myself?)
Quote: Chappers @ August 7 2010, 12:16 AM BSTOne thing I don't want is a mid-winter break. It will just destroy all the traditions of English football - and instead of having a break they'll go and play exhibition games halfway round the world.
Absolutely right Dave. The midwinter break is a tired mantra from people who just don't get it (or more likely, want to rake in the cash from those exhibition games). Our footballing tradition needs games in the winter. The break would achieve several things, one of which would be to make rich clubs richer (see above re overseas games). What it would palpably fail to do would be to reduce burn-out (see above re overseas games; and the prospect of good playable weather in the break, and unplayable weather when the league resumes - resulting in fixture congestion and - hey, you guessed it - player burn-out).
By the way Dave I saw Southampton filled the hole left by Fulham for that friendly - good on them and shame on the Cottagers.
Quote: Badge @ August 7 2010, 12:24 AM BSTBy the way Dave I saw Southampton filled the hole left by Fulham for that friendly - good on them and shame on the Cottagers.
Yep - and a one-one draw. I missed it unfortunately because I had to work.
Bloody job!
Football at 3pm. Let's hope Hernandez features.
Charity Shield today. Be it a glorified friendly or a genuine trophy, it's good to see the lads in action a week before the serious stuff begins. And to add incentive, should United win it, Ryan Giggs becomes the most decorated footballer in world football.
Also fair play to Peter Crouch as he has made it on the front page and the back page of this mornings News of the World. Both stories seem to be absolutely made up shite. The front page is about him cheating on Abbie for some teen hooker and the back page is about him leaving Tottenham, saying how Tottenham have regretted buying him. Is that why he featured in every Premiership game last season? He scored the goal that put Tottenham in the Champions League. If there's any truth in these rumours, I'd do my best to keep hold of him if I was Spurs manager. In Europe this season, he'd be a great target man and he has Champions League experience. If I was Spurs, I wouldn't bring in anymore strikers, as they have got four great strikers at the minute anyway in Defoe, Crouch, Keane and Pavlyuchenko.
Also, promising news today. Sir Alex Ferguson wasn't at United's public training session yesterday, he was at Craven Cottage where Fulham were playing Werder Bremman. Who plays for Werder Bremman? Mezut Ozil. Would be a great signing for United as he has that creative spark that only Paul Scholes has in the centre of midfield. Him doing all the passing, Fletcher doing all the physical work. Would be a modern day Keane and Scholes.
It seems to me I've heard that song before
It's from an old familiar score
I know it well, that melody
Okay, if you could watch any two teams from the past play each other, who would you choose? For me, it would have to be the 1970 World Cup Brazil team against the 1974 World Cup Holland team.
Brazil 1982 against anyone.
First bit of silverware of the season. Was a good performance today. Scholes ran that midfield with excellet passing and Valencia's crossing as ever was top class. Berba got a goal, hopefully he'll go on a good run and show everyone his full potential.
What happened with the Hernandez goal? Was it off his hand or face? I couldn't tell.