The all-in-one consolidatory football thread Page 165

Quote: Jack Massey @ July 29 2010, 7:47 PM BST

f he was good enough, then he'd be in the Spurs team. He's not good enough, simple as that, so you're saying we just limit foreign players so 'average' footballers from England can make it into teams. No, it would be disastrous for football. A manager should be able to pick whoever he wants, he should be able to pick his best team, not be forced into picking players due to their nationality.

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But you have to ask yourself WHY isn't he good enough. To get to a peak of performance you have to play in competitive fixtures regularly not just in the 4th round of the League Cup because the first team is rested.

The pundits are always banging on how friendlies don't mean anything because there isn't the intensity of the performance. How can a player fully exploit their potential if they don't get the chance to develop in meaningful games.

OK, so a manager can pick anyone he likes so the 30% of squads that are English in 2010 ends up becoming 25% in 2014 to maybe 20% in 2018 when we could be hosting the World Cup. If our 'golden generation' fail to get to Euro2008 and then limp to the last 16 where they get thumped 4-1 by Germany I seriously fear for the future.

My team is Lincoln and I live in Peterborough so I don't put club success over national team success as followers of big city Premier League teams might do. I just want my country to do well and clubs playing mediocre foreigners in place of arguably mediocre English players just hampers its chances. As it stands it's the overseas players who are benefitting from playing with and against the top internationals.

Quote: Tuumble @ July 29 2010, 11:53 PM BST

OK, so a manager can pick anyone he likes so the 30% of squads that are English in 2010 ends up becoming 25% in 2014 to maybe 20% in 2018 when we could be hosting the World Cup. If our 'golden generation' fail to get to Euro2008 and then limp to the last 16 where they get thumped 4-1 by Germany I seriously fear for the future.

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But like I said before, were we really a power house of a international team before all the foreign imports.
1966- Qualifyed due to being Host Nation
1970- Qualifyed due to being holders
1974- Didn't qualify
1978- Didn't qualify
1994- Didn't qualify
These are all before foreign exports really became huge in our game. And to be honest, I don't care much for the national team. I'm Northern and am a high percentage Irish whereas I regard the England football team more of a Southern thing as most of the England support is. I'd much rather Manchester United win a Champions League than England win a World Cup, I'm far more dedicated to my club team than my International team. I'll cheer for England, hope they do well, but I'm more interested in Man United and the Premiership in general and you have to move with the times and foreign imports have made our game far more watchable and enjoyable in my opinion.

And John Bostock has only just turned 18. If he's good enough, he'll break into the Spurs team, if not he won't. The best will always make it.

Quote: Splodge @ July 29 2010, 9:35 AM BST

That reminds me of when Marco Delvecchio came out and said how Roma fans didn't appreciate his contribution to the team, but if he had a more exciting foreign name like Alan Shearer, they would love him.

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Can you post a link to that story?

Quote: catskillz @ July 30 2010, 2:43 AM BST

Can you post a link to that story?

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a link to that story?

Quote: catskillz @ July 30 2010, 2:43 AM BST

Can you post a link to that story?

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It was on Gazetta Football Italia, during the paper review (and I'm guessing it was in the Corriere dello Sport as they love their Roma stories).

You'll probably need to be a fully paid up member of LexisNexis to track that one down...

Quote: Jack Massey @ July 30 2010, 1:26 AM BST

I'd much rather Manchester United win a Champions League than England win a World Cup, I'm far more dedicated to my club team than my International team. I'll cheer for England, hope they do well, but I'm more interested in Man United and the Premiership in general and you have to move with the times and foreign imports have made our game far more watchable and enjoyable in my opinion.

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It's not actually about moving with the times though is it - we've been attracting foreigners for over 30 years but it's only in recent years that that has taken off.

Personally I'd rather England won the World Cup than Liverpool won the Champions' League but hey, we've won that five times already.

Quote: Tuumble @ July 30 2010, 4:16 PM BST

Personally I'd rather England won the World Cup than Liverpool won the Champions' League but hey, we've won that five times already.

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Yeah but nobodies died when we've won it-

Liverpool lost in '85, man!

Quote: Jack Massey @ July 30 2010, 1:26 AM BST

But like I said before, were we really a power house of a international team before all the foreign imports.
1966- Qualifyed due to being Host Nation
1970- Qualifyed due to being holders
1974- Didn't qualify
1978- Didn't qualify
1994- Didn't qualify

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Just looking at this again there is a bit of a flaw with this argument. We may not have 'qualified' for four tournaments in a row but we did win the thing '66, came third in the Euros in 1968 and were a bit unlucky against West Germany in 1970 losing 3-2 in the quarter-finals after Gordon Banks had food poisoning.

In the 1972 European championships they lost in the last 8 to the eventual winners (West Germany) as they did in 1976 (Czechoslovakia). In 1974 one goal against Poland would've taken them through and Poles eventually finished third.

That run of non-qualifications cost us dear as we then put in a group with Italy for Argentina in 1978 and missed out on qualification on goal-difference. Where did Italy finish? Fourth.

Failing to qualify for those tournaments doesn't really tell the whole story though I'll admit we were probably still only a quarter-finals team even then.

1994 was different and Graham Taylor was picking some unbelievably poor players for the national side. That said they were unlucky here too because Norway and Holland both stole a point in the closing minutes at Wembley and England were robbed in Rotterdam when Koeman should've been sent off. Holland lost to eventual winners Brazil in the quarters.

However that's being generous to England. There's no way that team could be described as a good side but the 70s vintage do deserve a little credit.

Quote: Jack Massey @ July 30 2010, 1:26 AM BST

I'd much rather Manchester United win a Champions League than England win a World Cup,

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I'd much rather Manchester United won nothing than Chelsea win the league.

http://www.expressandstar.com/blogs/2010/08/02/england-footballers-could-learn-from-uk-athletics-stars/

Discuss.

Doesanyone know if any betting shops are offering odds on Alex Ferguson not making it past Liverpool's 18 League titles before his retirement?

I hope they don't make it. They'd be even more unbearable. It's good that the record is still held from ancient history.

If anyone wants a largely depressing wallow in England's own sense of footballing importance I heartingly recommend 'Don't Mention the Score: A Masochist's History of England's National Football Team' by Simon Briggs.

Really well researched and presented in digestible and fun way.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Mention-Score-Masochists-Englands/dp/1847244092

Quote: Tuumble @ August 3 2010, 11:28 AM BST

Just looking at this again there is a bit of a flaw with this argument. We may not have 'qualified' for four tournaments in a row but we did win the thing '66, came third in the Euros in 1968 and were a bit unlucky against West Germany in 1970 losing 3-2 in the quarter-finals after Gordon Banks had food poisoning.

In the 1972 European championships they lost in the last 8 to the eventual winners (West Germany) as they did in 1976 (Czechoslovakia). In 1974 one goal against Poland would've taken them through and Poles eventually finished third.

That run of non-qualifications cost us dear as we then put in a group with Italy for Argentina in 1978 and missed out on qualification on goal-difference. Where did Italy finish? Fourth.

Failing to qualify for those tournaments doesn't really tell the whole story though I'll admit we were probably still only a quarter-finals team even then.

1994 was different and Graham Taylor was picking some unbelievably poor players for the national side. That said they were unlucky here too because Norway and Holland both stole a point in the closing minutes at Wembley and England were robbed in Rotterdam when Koeman should've been sent off. Holland lost to eventual winners Brazil in the quarters.

However that's being generous to England. There's no way that team could be described as a good side but the 70s vintage do deserve a little credit.

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Hasn't it always been this, we needed one goal here, one goal there though with the exception of this years 2010 dismal cup exit. In 1996, we lost on penalties. In 1998 we lost on penalties. In 2000, we went out due to giving away a last minute penalty. In 2002 we lost to the winners Brazil in high temperatures due to a fluke Ronaldinho goal. In 2004 we lost on penalties. In 2006 we lost on penalties. In 2008 we were knocked out in qualifying, by one goal. I don't think foreign imports has effected the England team since 1966, it's just the same old thing that's always been the problem, we've just not had the answer when we've needed it most.

Quote: Chappers @ August 4 2010, 12:34 PM BST

I hope they don't make it. They'd be even more unbearable. It's good that the record is still held from ancient history.

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Why are we unbearable though Dave???