Sitcoms you hated because they 'stole' your idea Page 3

Quote: Marc P @ July 12 2010, 10:47 AM BST

I used to live next door to Oxhey.

The complexity is in making contradictory elements of a character inhabit the same body and provide the dynamics that drive the comedy - in such a way that you can do it time and time again. Think of Frasier. Everybody is complex in real life, pretty much everybody anyway. In sitcom the most important questions to ask is what does my Character want and what stops him from getting it? The best anser to the latter usually is the character himself, and to do that repeatedly, and believably, you have to make that character complex to some degree. What does Mainwaring want - he wants to be respected but on a deeper more complex level he wants to be loved. Now if that isn't in him as a character you don't get the depth that is there and can be explored in episodes like the one where his twin brother turns up. A simple analysis would be that he is an arrogant character who gets his pomposity pricked, but it's not that simple at all.

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You're picking one of the great sitcom characters there. From one of the great sitcoms. There are plenty of other examples from similarly great sitcoms written by writers who know their onions.

Generally speaking, I don't think there's much complexity in most sitcom characters.

Quote: chipolata @ July 12 2010, 11:00 AM BST

You're picking one of the great sitcom characters there. From one of the great sitcoms. There are plenty of other examples from similarly great sitcoms written by writers who know their onions.

Generally speaking, I don't think there's much complexity in most sitcom characters.

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I think you are mistaking the meaning of the word complexity in this context. There is a skeleton beneath what you see of the character - you don't see it but it is there. A simplistic approach would be let's make a sitcom about a Librarian but hey I know let's make him hate books. This does not lend itself to complexity. It's a one note device. Look at your simplistic approach and then look at Fraser - the simple character of a psyichiatrist who has more hang ups etc than hois clients - and then y do it twice with brothers and look how incredibly alike they are... and yet.... and yet how different! Complexity my man. Art is about making complex things LOOK simple!

Quote: Marc P @ July 12 2010, 11:07 AM BST

I think you are mistaking the meaning of the word complexity in this context. There is a skeleton beneath what you see of the character - you don't see it but it is there. A simplistic approach would be let's make a sitcom about a Librarian but hey I know let's make him hate books. This does not lend itself to complexity. It's a one note device. Look at your simplistic approach and then look at Fraser - the simple character of a psyichiatrist who has more hang ups etc than hois clients - and then y do it twice with brothers and look how incredibly alike they are... and yet.... and yet how different! Complexity my man. Art is about making complex things LOOK simple!

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True, true.

But again you're picking a great sitcom as an example. My point is that most sitcom writing never gets anywhere near those levels.

Quote: chipolata @ July 12 2010, 11:12 AM BST

True, true.

But again you're picking a great sitcom as an example. My point is that most sitcom writing never gets anywhere near those levels.

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Well that's true but if you think about it that is why they were able to generate so many story episodes. Legs is the first thing people look for in a sitcom if they like what they have read. Does the conceit have legs? Yopu might argue that Fawlty Towers was a simple construct again of the pompous man thinking he is better than he is, with a harridan wife. The question is what does he want. He wants to be respected and be free of his life - so what is stopping him from leaving? We never get a sense they love each other. SO simple - not complex really and 12 episodes. WHat makes it genius is the writing, the farcical plotting and of course the performances. But you see my point? The more 'human' that is complex, the characters the more opportunity for endless stories. You can put your characters anywhere and the dynamic will still be there... it is not rooted in the sit as such. I loved the pitch for Seinfeld. WHat's it about? 'It's about the human experience.'

Quote: Marc P @ July 12 2010, 10:47 AM BST

What does Mainwaring want - he wants to be respected but on a deeper more complex level he wants to be loved. Now if that isn't in him as a character you don't get the depth that is there and can be explored in episodes like the one where his twin brother turns up. A simple analysis would be that he is an arrogant character who gets his pomposity pricked, but it's not that simple at all.

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Yes yes and a great episode that, but it didn't come until well into the series after they had exhausted many other more typical plots. I doubt if this deep type of episode was ever dreamed of at the beginning. The potential depth of character was always there yes, but rarely explored to that level. I believe it was Lowe's fantastic acting range that promted Perry to think that one up and it was always probable that proud Capt. Mainwaring had little dark secrets. Has to be one of the best sitcom episodes ever.

This is why it must pay any writer to write their characters' histories down, and to know them inside out, if the sitcom runs and runs then you can delve into their complexities more. Rab C Nesbitt also became surprisingly more complex in the later series and again it worked really well.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ July 12 2010, 11:32 PM BST

Yes yes and a great episode that, but it didn't come until well into the series after they had exhausted many other more typical plots. I doubt if this deep type of episode was ever dreamed of at the beginning.

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Tell you what.. read the first episode of the series and come back to me. One of the best pilot episodes ever written. These fellows actually lived through the war. They were talking about their lives. I think they dreamed a little bit deeply that they were doing something good and talking about something through comedy that spoke to the whole nation. Exhausted indeed. Dads Army - undoubtedly one of the best British Sitcoms ever made. And why - because of everything I have said in previous posts.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ July 12 2010, 11:32 PM BST

This is why it must pay any writer to write their characters' histories down, and to know them inside out, if the sitcom runs and runs then you can delve into their complexities more.

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Not really no. You don't have to write their history down. Just make them complex - or three dimensional if you like - from the, as our transatlantic cousins would say, the gitgo. If they spell it like that.

Steptoe & Son. Not only did they steal my sitcom idea, but they stole my life. I had to go on the bins instead.

Time Trumpet

I had the idea for an 'I <3 2002' spoof back in freshers' week 2002. Not really a sitcom I suppose.

Armando Iannucci. What a bastard.

That's the stuff. They're all bastards, hogging the limelight, pilfering agents' letter trays for our ideas, how they make me eternally spew

Note to editor: Can we have a projectile vomit icon please?

Pheonix Nights....right down to the horse crapping on the dance floor!!

Quote: Bomsh @ July 14 2010, 3:19 PM BST

I once dreamed up a TV format which turned out to be remarkably similar to a programme that was already in production in the room next door.

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What was the room next door?

I do have a sitcom about clones that I wrote, then saw BBC Three had one starring the guy from Brazil. But that died on its arse so mine still stands a chance at some point in the future.

Where are the clones, there ought to be clones, send in the clones... oh don't worry, they're here.

I have been meaning for a while to now to have a stab at a radio sitcom set in a medieval castle, only there was the nagging concern at the back of my mind that it might descend into nothing more than a string of laboured anachronisms. Obviously this fear did not put off the writers of The Castle.

Quote: Timbo @ July 14 2010, 3:39 PM BST

Obviously this fear did not put off the writers of The Castle.

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I wish it had. From what I've heard, it's not up to much.