Is it all a dream and Pacey wakes back up in Dawson's Creek?
Doctor Who... Page 557
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 8:55 AM BSTPLEASE STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT HOW LOST ENDED IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE LOST THREAD. THANK YOU!
Don't be a silly arse.
I mention nothing of what happened. Now go blow a smoke monster out of your arse.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 8:55 AM BSTPLEASE STOP FUCKING TALKING ABOUT HOW LOST ENDED IN ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE LOST THREAD. THANK YOU!
Don't be a silly arse.
I mention nothing of what happened. Now go blow a smoke monster out of your arse.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 9:12 AM BSTDon't be a silly arse.
I mention nothing of what happened. Now go blow a smoke monster out of your arse.
I have to try and cap you before it's too late!
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 8:24 AM BSTIf you watched the Van Gogh and focussed on that stupid horse parrot thing. And not on a very sad story on the powerlessnes of time travellers, mental illness and the nature of art. The you missed a treat. Like going to the Tate and looking at the toilets.
Except it's not my job as a viewer to go searching for these elements. I agree, they were interesting, but a good dramatic writer would have run with them. Developed them. Not just tossed them willy-nilly into the mix and hoped I might find them.
This series of Doctor who has, unfortunately, had far too many lazy underdeveloped episodes. Many have indeed had interesting ideas within, but they've been drowned out by pedestrian pacing and predictable plotting.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 9:51 AM BSTExcept it's not my job as a viewer to go searching for these elements.
I don't think you had to search in the Van Gogh episode, it was front and centre.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 9:51 AM BSTthey've been drowned out by pedestrian pacing
I wouldn't say pacing was an issue; the Silurians two parter aside, It feels like every episode has ran quite quickly.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 9:51 AM BSTExcept it's not my job as a viewer to go searching for these elements. I agree, they were interesting, but a good dramatic writer would have run with them. Developed them. Not just tossed them willy-nilly into the mix and hoped I might find them.
.
Dr Who is the ultimate democratic show.
There has to be space for people who like space mosnter fights and kids who want scifi
I notice a version of the Amy's crack gag we did here weeks ago made it into Newsjack.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 7:42 AM BSTNogget's kids return beaten up from school
I make a point of asking children I meet (children of relatives, associates and friends) if they watch Doctor Who. So far, only one 10-year-old boy has said he is a fan of the show, although "I prefer the old ones on DVD and Tom Baker is my favourite". All other kids have said they don't watch it because it isn't cool. Some kids in their mid to late teens have said no one they know watches it - except their parents, which is why it is so uncool.
Quote: chipolata @ June 18 2010, 9:51 AM BSTExcept it's not my job as a viewer to go searching for these elements. I agree, they were interesting, but a good dramatic writer would have run with them. Developed them. Not just tossed them willy-nilly into the mix and hoped I might find them.
This series of Doctor who has, unfortunately, had far too many lazy underdeveloped episodes. Many have indeed had interesting ideas within, but they've been drowned out by pedestrian pacing and predictable plotting.
I totally agree. Many of the episodes this year were boring and it's fairly obvious why. Writing and direction. These are areas where the show is falling down at the moment. It doesn't have the best writers and directors and there isn't really any excuse for that. Poor writing and direction is why the Doctor's character has veered so widely and Amy has turned from an interesting character into a pouting bimbo.
Remember how we all speculated that Victory of the Daleks had been written for Tennant, because of the doctor's out of character behaviour hitting the Dalek? Well he's been out of Character through most of the series - if you believe his Character to be the one initially established by Matt Smith. Good Actors acting badly is always the result of bad direction.
I know a lot of you don't like the moaning, but there'll be a lot more to moan about if these problems aren't dealt with. You might laugh at the idea of the show being cancelled again, but I watched it happen year by year the first time, and this is how it starts.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 18 2010, 3:37 PM BSTRemember how we all speculated that Victory of the Daleks had been written for Tennant, because of the doctor's out of character behaviour hitting the Dalek?
Didn't seem all that out of character to me, would Tennant have been more likely to attack a Dalek with a big spanner? We saw how furious Smith's Doctor could get in the previous episode, the Space Whale one.
Quote: Kenneth @ June 18 2010, 11:31 AM BSTI make a point of asking children I meet (children of relatives, associates and friends) if they watch Doctor Who. So far, only one 10-year-old boy has said he is a fan of the show, although "I prefer the old ones on DVD and Tom Baker is my favourite". All other kids have said they don't watch it because it isn't cool. Some kids in their mid to late teens have said no one they know watches it - except their parents, which is why it is so uncool.
Maybe over there, lots of kids watch it here. I understand it gets pretty good viewing figures in Oz, too.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 8:24 AM BSTIf you watched the Van Gogh and focussed on that stupid horse parrot thing. And not on a very sad story on the powerlessnes of time travellers, mental illness and the nature of art. The you missed a treat. Like going to the Tate and looking at the toilets.
Bad example. The Tate owns a work of art that is actually a working toilet, as well as a sealed tin can of pasteurised human shit.
I wouldn't describe the Van Gogh episode as a treat unless you enjoy having your tear ducts punched until they're dry. It was emotional bukkake, with all the historical depth and insight of a sunflowers tea towel from the Rijks Museum. The quality of the monster was neither here nor there.
Why don't we write up a list of the way Who SHOULD be made and send it to the Beeb to pass on to Moffat? He'd probably be happy for our advice.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 18 2010, 3:37 PM BSTthe best writers
It does seem odd that, at the very least, bigger names in the world of sci-fi and fantasy haven't been used. Though obviously Neil Gaiman is on board for next series.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 18 2010, 3:56 PM BSTBad example. The Tate owns a work of art that is actually a working toilet, as well as a sealed tin can of pasteurised human shit.
I wouldn't describe the Van Gogh episode as a treat unless you enjoy having your tear ducts punched until they're dry. It was emotional bukkake, with all the historical depth and insight of a sunflowers tea towel from the Rijks Museum. The quality of the monster was neither here nor there.
The tin doesn't actually contain shit.
The toilet doesn't work fully.
The old Who wasn't so great.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 4:07 PM BSTThe old Who wasn't so great.
You're right about old who in general. But let's be specific... Let's compare
Season 13 -
Terror of the Zygons
Planet of Evil
Pyramids of Mars
The Android Invasion
The Brain of Morbius
The Seeds of Doom
Season 14 -
The Masque of Mandragora
The Hand of Fear
The Deadly Assassin
The Face of Evil
The Robots of Death
The Talons of Weng-Chiang
With
Season 32 -
"The Eleventh Hour"
"The Beast Below"
"Victory of the Daleks"
"The Time of Angels"/"Flesh and Stone"
"The Vampires of Venice"
"Amy's Choice"
"The Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood"
"Vincent and the Doctor"
"The Lodger"
"The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang"
Granted that the Android Invasion is shit and would slot comfortably into any RTD or Moffat era, there's not much comparison is there?
The only season 32 story that would have interested Hinchcliffe and Holmes in it's current form is the Angels one. Holmes would have had a lot of fun rewriting Victory of the Daleks and Vincent & The Doctor and the rest they would have BINNED.
Compare Vampires of Venice with Masque of Mandragora (out now on DVD, kids), both set in the same region and period. The adult/children's programme debate is right there. Masque feels like it was written for adults, Vampires of Venice is a romp for kids.
Quote: sootyj @ June 18 2010, 4:07 PM BSTThe tin doesn't actually contain shit.
The toilet doesn't work fully.
Manzoni's tin does contain real shit. www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?workid=27330&searchid=16857&tabview=text
Described (with no irony whatsoever) as: 'the perfect metaphor for the bodied and disembodied nature of artistic labour: the work of art as fully incorporated raw material, and its violent expulsion as commodity.'
The toilet is by Sarah Lucas or Tracey Emin - can't remember which and it does work. I assume you're thinking of the Duchamp piece.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 18 2010, 4:48 PM BSTYou're right about old who in general. But let's be specific... Let's compare
Season 13 -Terror of the ZygonsHaven't seen
Planet of Evil Good, not great.
Pyramids of MarsClassic.
The Android InvasionNot seen
The Brain of MorbiusIt was okay.
The Seeds of Doom Very good.Season 14 -
The Masque of Mandragora Good.
The Hand of Fear Okay.
The Deadly Assassin Quite good, not as great as I expected though
The Face of Evil Very Good.
The Robots of Death Classic
The Talons of Weng-Chiang ClassicWith
I prefer old Who, if only for nostalgia reasons, but see my take on the eps above.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 18 2010, 4:57 PM BSTSeason 32 -
"The Eleventh Hour"Classic
"The Beast Below"Very Good
"Victory of the Daleks" Okay, lots of good bits but not a great story..
"The Time of Angels"/"Flesh and Stone"Classic
"The Vampires of Venice" Funny, but filler,
"Amy's Choice" Good
"The Hungry Earth"/"Cold Blood"Poor.
"Vincent and the Doctor"Very Good
"The Lodger"Very Good
"The Pandorica Opens"/"The Big Bang" Who knows?
As someone who has no strong feelings either way about Doctor Who, watched it back in the 70s as a child, found it cringy in the 80s, enjoyed the Ecclestone comeback, watches it now with a child who is a bit of a fan and as someone who enjoys sci-fi films (but isn't a geek about it), I have been a bit disappointed with the recent episodes.
Amy doesn't seem like much of a character, the monsters, aliens and sci-fi bits are seeming like an afterthought and the emotional stories are a bit too infantile for me. My 6 year old is enjoying it, but it's not leaving much of an impression and the sci-fi elements have confused.