Today I was mostly helping classic Who director John Black empty his loft... many sealed boxes of vintage scripts and video tapes were moved... (he was a staff BBC director who did such serials as softly softly etc. His Who imput was just The Keeper of Traken, Four to Doomsday & K9 and Company!)
I'm sure that many of the boxes we moved would be worth a fair few quid on the open collectors market...
(He did offer me his unwanted excercise bike though...!)
Haha!
I hope you took it?
Quote: Gagsy @ June 14 2010, 10:08 PM BSTToday I was mostly helping classic Who director John Black empty his loft... many sealed boxes of vintage scripts and video tapes were moved... (he was a staff BBC director who did such serials as softly softly etc. His Who imput was just The Keeper of Traken, Four to Doomsday & K9 and Company!)
I'm sure that many of the boxes we moved would be worth a fair few quid on the open collectors market...
(He did offer me his unwanted excercise bike though...!)
Interesting. Unfortunately the serials you mention are both fairly leaden in terms of direction. Keeper of Traken has some good acting, but the pace is stately, as they say.
Right, I've just watched the latest episode and I'm relieved to say the run of complete duffers is over! It was a lot of fun and even though the plot didn't quite hold up Corden and Daisy made such a convincingly sweet pair that I was rooting for them. This coming from someone who isn't Corden's biggest fan but I accept he can act, which he did rather well in this story.
It wasn't a classic but it gets a thumbs up from me and as Mr Stott said it was the best thing Gareth Roberts has done for Dr Who (not that he had set the bar too high).
Glad the doubters are coming round to how good Matt Smith is as well. He was knockout again.
I also watched it tonight and I have to say I'm now completely terrified for the programme. What I saw tonight was a script written by someone who doesn't understand the dialectic of the show and can't even write an acceptable sentence - 'Amy: bow tie- get rid'. And what are we supposed to make of the line - 'call me the rot-meister'.
Rather than write for the character of the Doctor and his assistant and the conceit of arriving in a different time and place every week, we now have a tendency to create a story and feed the Doctor into it, abandoning whatever traditional elements will not fit in. In this case the Tardis and the assistant.
It's almost as if the season has been played in reverse. Smith emerged character-fully formed and is now steadily regressing into an uncomfortable amalgam of Tennant's doctor and a teenage savant. Apart from the execrable dialogue mentioned above we now have an UNRECOGNISABLE Mork & Mindy Doctor who doesn't know that he doesn't like wine, so spits it straight back into the glass and is somehow unaware that he is an accomplished footballer. Incidentally, the use of football in the episode is very troubling. Writing should distill modern life, not just collect it.
Added to the painful and lazy use of 'Psychic Paper' and the sonic screwdriver - used in every single story this season I think - we now have the 'perception filter' employed with the same lazy confidence as a substitute for creating a story with elements of intrigue, jeopardy and suspense.
The Lodger is more than just drivel, though, it is aimless drivel, and I think it must be apparent to most here now that Moffat is not in control and he cannot steer the show like RTD did. Aside from his efforts, very little of what we have had this year has been of any quality and there is a big question mark over next weeks budget-busting monster fest. The crack is real and it's not in fabric of time it's in the fabric of this show.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 12:56 AM BSTMoffat is not in control and he cannot steer the show like RTD did. Aside from his efforts, very little of what we have had this year has been of any quality.
Having been relieved to enjoy this week's episode I'm afraid overall I agree with this.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 12:56 AM BSTDoctor who doesn't know that he doesn't like wine, so spits it straight back into the glass and is somehow unaware that he is an accomplished footballer.
I attributed that to the whole idea of when the Doctor changes, he doesn't know what sort of person he's going to be (nice, sarcastic, angry etc). I assume that includes whether he's good at football, likes wine etc.
But I suppose that's usually over after the first episode or two of a new Doctor.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 12:56 AM BSTcan't even write an acceptable sentence - 'Amy: bow tie- get rid'.
Do people talk in acceptable sentences?
Writing should distill modern life, not just collect it.
Does that actually mean anything?
Added to the painful and lazy use of 'Psychic Paper' and the sonic screwdriver - used in every single story this season I think
I thought the psychic paper was used for the purpose intended, kind of like Jim Rockford's business cards. As for the sonic screwdriver it was conspicuously unused - by your earlier logic one of the elements that had to be written out because it did not fit. For what it is worth I thought Amy and the Tardis were 'written out' of the episode quite elegantly, which is to say they were not written out at all; but surely the 'writing out' of elements that are not required for the dynamic of a particular story is something that happens - and should happen - in all drama series?
Quote: zooo @ June 15 2010, 1:02 AM BSTI attributed that to the whole idea of when the Doctor changes, he doesn't know what sort of person he's going to be (nice, sarcastic, angry etc). I assume that includes whether he's good at football, likes wine etc.
But I suppose that's usually over after the first episode or two of a new Doctor.
I suspect the point about this Doctor is that it is not going to be over. Perhaps after eleven incarnations he is starting to lose it.
The one thing in the episode I was not too sure about was the Glasgow mind-meld, but Smith kind of got away with it.
Quote: Timbo @ June 15 2010, 1:16 AM BSTDo people talk in acceptable sentences?
When was dialogue a transcript of everyday speech?
Quote: GodotWriting should distill modern life, not just collect it.
Quote: TimboDoes that actually mean anything?
You think I write sentences that don't actually mean anything? The meaning of my remark is obvious to anyone who can understand what the words I used literally mean.
Quote: Timbo @ June 15 2010, 1:16 AM BSTI thought the psychic paper was used for the purpose intended, kind of like Jim Rockford's business cards. As for the sonic screwdriver it was conspicuously unused - by your earlier logic one of the elements that had to be written out because it did not fit. For what it is worth I thought Amy and the Tardis were 'written out' of the episode quite elegantly, which is to say they were not written out at all; but surely the 'writing out' of elements that are not required for the dynamic of a particular story is something that happens - and should happen - in all drama series?
One assumes that when you write for a show there are no 'elements that do not fit in to the story' as you put it, since you construct your story around them. If you have to exclude the tardis and the assistant, lets face it, you're not really trying.
The sonic screwdriver was used. It was mentioned when the doctor was standing on the bed "no sonicking" and it was substituted with a toothbrush as joke.
I don't regard the Sonic Screwdriver as an essential element of Doctor Who. There has been much fan debate as to whether it should ever be used again. For me it is similar to K9. Psychic Paper is a load of bollocks that has no place in the show. It removes dramatic possibilities and is a quick fix for writers.
Quote: Timbo @ June 15 2010, 1:16 AM BSTThe one thing in the episode I was not too sure about was the Glasgow mind-meld, but Smith kind of got away with it.
No doubt the headbutts were written in at a late date when it was revealed that James Corden would be in it, but there is nothing to say about this sequence other than it should never have progressed past the first draft of the script.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 1:36 AM BSTWhen was dialogue a transcript of everyday speech?
It isn't, but neither is it a requirement for characters to consistently speak in grammatically correct sentences.
You think I write sentences that don't actually mean anything? The meaning of my remark is obvious to anyone who can understand what the words I used literally mean.
Nothing wrong with my vocabulary, but I am afraid I could distil no meaning from the collection of words in question.
One assumes that when you write for a show there are no 'elements that do not fit in to the story' as you put it, since you construct your story around them. If you have to exclude the tardis and the assistant, lets face it, you're not really trying.
I am not sure they were excluded; in fact the Tardis featured rather more prominently than usual - usually it is just parked and forgotten about; the plot involved the Doctor attempting to recover the Tardis and rescue Amy. But in any case, Doctor Who should be playful with its format, so long as each story works on its own terms and does not undermine the whole. The approach of satisfactorily explained absence is considerably preferable to having the plot made flabby by the need to keep the assistant involved in the action (something that tended to happen in classic Who). The perceived need to write a part in every story for every character was a terrific drag in shows such as the later Star Trek franchises.
The sonic screwdriver was used. It was mentioned when the doctor was standing on the bed "no sonicking" and it was substituted with a toothbrush as joke.
So it was used by not being used?
I don't regard the Sonic Screwdriver as an essential element of Doctor Who. There has been much fan debate as to whether it should ever be used again. For me it is similar to K9.
Quite, but as the writers are stuck with it, like with K9 they have to find ways of writing around it. i.e. not using it, but not ignoring it. Which was how it was dealt with in this instance.
Psychic Paper is a load of bollocks that has no place in the show. It removes dramatic possibilities and is a quick fix for writers.
No, psychic paper has limited applications so it does not significantly remove dramatic possibilities, just a lot of tedious explaining; it is therefore acceptable as a plot device. The sonic has only become objectionable because under RTD it could be used to get the Doctor out of any possible hole.
No doubt the headbutts were written in at a late date when it was revealed that James Corden would be in it, but there is nothing to say about this sequence other than it should never have progressed past the first draft of the script.
The only redeeming aspect was that by making it painful they gave the Doctor a reason not to do it every time he needs to explain something in a hurry. But yes it was misjudged.
Quote: Timbo @ June 15 2010, 2:33 AM BSTI am not sure they were excluded; in fact the Tardis featured rather more prominently than usual - usually it is just parked and forgotten about; the plot involved the Doctor attempting to recover the Tardis and rescue Amy
Interestingly, in the original comic-strip version of this story, which can be found easily online, there was no 'Amy Tardis' part to the plot. It was just Doctor/Micky(+Rose at the end).
Re: Perception filter; this is one of my favourite elements, because to me it seems genuinely subversive to highlight the fact that so many of us completely ignore huge, sinister things in society, even though they are there, right in front of our eyes. And very often, we actually vote for them.
Psychic paper tends to fail dramatically occaisonally and has no effect on powerful enemies like Daleks. It's a neat shortcut through lots of explaining dialogue.
Sonic Screwdriver is over used, especially when blowing up Silurian deathrays.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 12:56 AM BSTI also watched it tonight and I have to say I'm now completely terrified for the programme. What I saw tonight was a script written by someone who doesn't understand the dialectic of the show and can't even write an acceptable sentence - 'Amy: bow tie- get rid'. And what are we supposed to make of the line - 'call me the rot-meister'.
Rather than write for the character of the Doctor and his assistant and the conceit of arriving in a different time and place every week, we now have a tendency to create a story and feed the Doctor into it, abandoning whatever traditional elements will not fit in. In this case the Tardis and the assistant.
It's almost as if the season has been played in reverse. Smith emerged character-fully formed and is now steadily regressing into an uncomfortable amalgam of Tennant's doctor and a teenage savant. Apart from the execrable dialogue mentioned above we now have an UNRECOGNISABLE Mork & Mindy Doctor who doesn't know that he doesn't like wine, so spits it straight back into the glass and is somehow unaware that he is an accomplished footballer. Incidentally, the use of football in the episode is very troubling. Writing should distill modern life, not just collect it.
Added to the painful and lazy use of 'Psychic Paper' and the sonic screwdriver - used in every single story this season I think - we now have the 'perception filter' employed with the same lazy confidence as a substitute for creating a story with elements of intrigue, jeopardy and suspense.
The Lodger is more than just drivel, though, it is aimless drivel, and I think it must be apparent to most here now that Moffat is not in control and he cannot steer the show like RTD did. Aside from his efforts, very little of what we have had this year has been of any quality and there is a big question mark over next weeks budget-busting monster fest. The crack is real and it's not in fabric of time it's in the fabric of this show.
I was talking about this last night with herself and I reckon this was probably written as the second episode - not only the wine but the food stuff as well, and the speaky stuff. It was later shifted in time to become the eleventh episode. Not a good use of the Tardis. Maybe MS can speak to his people and find out but it certainly looked that way to me.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ June 15 2010, 1:36 AM BST. Psychic Paper is a load of bollocks that has no place in the show. It removes dramatic possibilities and is a quick fix for writers.
Pyschic paper is pretty much the same as the sonic screwdriver when no people are there the Doctor can use the screwdriver to gain entry or exit from places, when there are people there he uses psychic paper for the same purposes - might as well give him a magic wand. If it is to be used it should pay something off big time in a way we never expect and it never is used thus, alas.
Quote: Nogget @ June 15 2010, 6:23 AM BSTRe: Perception filter; this is one of my favourite elements, because to me it seems genuinely subversive to highlight the fact that so many of us completely ignore huge, sinister things in society, even though they are there, right in front of our eyes.
Reminiscent of Douglas Adams 'somebody-else's-problem' field.
