SHARE SUBMISSION EXPERIENCES & REASSURE OTHERS

As a solo comedy writer, fairly new back into the game and working in isolation, I would be interested in hearing other comedy writers experiences, both bad and good, relating to their submissions.

I'll quickly fill you in on my background and current experience. I have only decided to really try and knuckle down into the comedy writing game this year. In the past (at medical school) I wrote and performed in the revues and trawled the London and South East stand-up circuit for a good few years. I submitted a couple of all-too-quickly tossed-off spec sitcom scripts to the Beeb, and was given a 'enjoyed it, but must try harder' appraisal to both.

Anyway, long story short, qualified as a doctor, busy working in the NHS for nine years, dropped out of comedy, got girlfriend pregnant, had twin girls, girlfriend and I split up, blah, blah, blah...

This year I started to get back into performing stand-up again. Was frustrated by how common-place and unoriginal the general stand-up scene has become. It's just not fun like it was when I was in my teens and twenties.

Anyway, decided to really have a serious go at writing a sitcom. This resulted in 'Vacancies', a part-sitcom, part-sketch show set in the sterils environment of a 'Holiday Inn' or 'Travel Lodge'-type of hotel, following the exploits of the staff and guests...

I really tried to re-write and re-write and not submit until I was satisfied that it was what I considered funny. Anyway, one of the places I submitted it to was Roughcut TV. Ash Atalla read it and I was invited up to Soho for a meeting. Wow, I thought.

After meeting one-on-one with Ash (he seems a genuinely nice and considerate man)I was invited to write a second draft based on his suggestions, i.e. making it more of a sitcom, reducing the sketch-like elements and altering some characterisations, making the episode more self-contained and less series plot-arc driven, etc. etc...

Ash also gave me a brief for a new TV sketch and invited me to submit materiaL. I worked feverishly on sketches fitting the brief and, three weeks later, submitted a whopping 26 (I was hitting a purple patch)first-installments of recurring character sketches. (If you think 26 is far too many, you may be right, but unless I was completely satisfied about their potential they were discarded - many were.)

I then worked hard on an extensive re-write of 'Vacancies' and submitted that.

I am now nearly a month on since submitting the sketches and three weeks from submitting the sitcom rewrite...

Not really knowing how the procedures, etiquettes and time-scales involved in these things I am in the dark to how long before "No news is good news" becomes "No News Means Forget It". Once you get a meeting with someone as successful as Ash Atalla how much is it a proper foor-in-the-door? So I would be interested in hearing experiences from others who are in this large comedy-writing boat.

Please post your experiences related to "the process"...

Thanks for bearing with me through this long story. Keep faith in your writing ability. More importantly, keep on writing, it's good for the your soul (mostly). Good luck to all.

(In the meantime I have decided to keep on writing whilst waiting, having just completed the first draft of a new sitcom 'The Notorious Baker-Glenns'. Also, I console myself that 'Vacancies' has a few more production companies to visit and that after four months the Beeb hasn't, to my knowledge, yet rejected the first draft... mind you, they may well have not read it yet.)

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 30, 2007, 1:23 AM

I am now nearly a month on since submitting the sketches and three weeks from submitting the sitcom rewrite...

Not really knowing how the procedures, etiquettes and time-scales involved in these things I am in the dark to how long before "No news is good news" becomes "No News Means Forget It". Once you get a meeting with someone as successful as Ash Atalla how much is it a proper foor-in-the-door? So I would be interested in hearing experiences from others who are in this large comedy-writing boat.

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Here are some views from me but sorry if I am out of line...

As a Sales & Marketing guy with twenty years experience working at very senior levels, I would say that 'nearly a month' and 'three weeks' are fairly short gestation periods on what are quite major projects and it would be reasonable to wait another couple of weeks, a month or even longer before assuming something has 'gone wrong'.

However, a professional sales guy would have ensured at the meeting with Ash that some 'hook' was placed into Ash that would have allowed a ring back to discuss the projects at more or less anytime... or at least got some sort of commitment from Ash as to when a follow up call would be appriopriate after the re-working was submitted. Worth thinking about how YOU would have done that, so as you make sure you do it at the next big meeting you get. Or maybe I am trying to teach my Grandma to suck eggs here, eh?

For me, if I were you I would ring Ash ASAP as what have you got to lose? If he loves your stuff he'll be happy to take your call, if he is losing interest or has lost interest, you've lost nothing by trying to place that call. If you do get to speak to him, and he says nothing conclusive, state in a friendly way that you'll ring him again in a couple of weeks. He may say, no leave it a month, but one way or another I'd ask the question. Why not? You've put in a load of work at his suggestion and you're looking for feedback and commitment, and a professsional person like Ash will not see you in a bad light, as you are simply acting like a fellow professional.

Alternatively, you can always bite your fingernails instead, it can help???

Good luck... but better still, make your own luck...

Thanks for that, you make some good points.

My feeling at the moment is that you're right when you suggest that in this 'business of show' a month or so is basically nothing. This being my first big foot-in-the-door meeting I'm green to know what to expect. It was pretty exciting to be chatting amicably about my writing and my "very good potential" (his words, not mine, promise) with the guy who produced 'The Office'. Of course, he probably meets tons of writers. However, he was kind (and realistic) to point out that if that he didn't think I had talent I wouldn't have been invited to meet him.

What I did try to do was show my commitment subsequent to the meeting by working bloody hard on both writing a large number of new and original sketches based on his brief plus the sitcom re-write in a (relatively) short period of time. I didn't allow working to my self-imposed deadline cloud my quality control judgement. I'm sure, in fact certain, that Roughcut is working on plenty of other production issues at the moment and that the sketch show is a longer-term project.

I find it hard to let my natural instinct not to be seen as pushy give way to my desire to make progress as a comedy writer.

The one thing I can do at the moment is just keep on writing and plugging away with other companies and other material. I'm a great believer that talent will out. So, if I'm right and I do have the talent, then it's only a matter of time...

Cheers!

That all sounds good. I doubt if your man sees that many writers. I don't think you'd be doing yourself any harm by giving him a ring anytime in the next month. But I wouldn't leave it any longer than that. I doubt he'd see you as being aggresssive by just asking for an update, it's a natural and normal thing to do. Producers of his calibre are of course businessmen in their own right and you've met him face to face, that is quite significant in itself IMHO with somebody at that level. Don't underestimate yourself!

Great stuff.. and good luck!!

erm, I have no experience to share! But for me your story so far sounds like good news. If they had made a decision (good or bad) you would know, chances are it's either still being read or awaiting some kind of internal meeting. At the 4Laughs seminar a few months back Ash mentioned he doesn't mind writers phoning/emailing a few months after submission to ask for an update as long as he wasn't constantly bombarded. And you're one step further along so presumably the time is less!

Good luck

Hello, I'm new here too. Based on my own experiences I'd say a month or so is nowt. Producers have their fingers in tons of pies and if you're new then you're way down on their 'to do' list. I also think however, that if you want an answer you've defintely waited long enough to put in a call or send an email. Another thing you might like to consider is approaching an agent. With concrete interest and a meeting with Ash under your belt you'd be v attractive to someone scouting for new talent. Then they can deal wih the sticky business of call backs etc. It worked for me. Good luck!

Hi Tim, sounds very promising for the future. You've got a foot in the door and that is quite massive. I should imagine that even if Vacancies doesn't get made you'd be able to send Ash any new material if he thinks you got talent.

It doesn't sound like any time has passed in getting feedback. They take ages from what I have read here so you don't need to panic. Sure its an idea to get in touch after a while (six to eight weeks).

Did you send Roughcut a full script when you first contacted them?

I'm almost ready to submit my pilot.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ October 30, 2007, 12:19 PM

Hi Tim, sounds very promising for the future. You've got a foot in the door and that is quite massive. I should imagine that even if Vacancies doesn't get made you'd be able to send Ash any new material if he thinks you got talent.

It doesn't sound like any time has passed in getting feedback. They take ages from what I have read here so you don't need to panic. Sure its an idea to get in touch after a while (six to eight weeks).

Did you send Roughcut a full script when you first contacted them?

I'm almost ready to submit my pilot.

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Yeah, it was a full episode with an outline for a series.

In retrospect I wish I'd waited a month or so longer and got some critical feedback from other writers not directly affiliated with production companies. I only sent for a crit from Marc Blake (see Writers Section on BSG) after I'd sent the script to Roughcut. Probably could have made my first draft better.

Therefore, I felt pretty damn lucky to get invited up for a meeting. My second draft was significantly different in structure than the first. We shall see...

I hope fellow struggling writers will keep this thread going... Sharing experiences both good and bad, so that we are all a little more illuminated about how the comedy production business runs. I get the impression that writers can be (sometimes understandably) reluctant to share their experiences, successes, frustrations and failures regarding their work and dealings with production companies, but I hope some will realise that doing this benefits us all.

Good luck with all projects.

I agree and we should continue to do so. Unfortunately, some people here felt the need to openly declare there dislike of success stories here but there are people here who genuinely benefit from them so keep us up to date.

Good luck with your projects too. Did you get rid of all sketches from Vacancies or literally just 'reduce' them? I'm working on something with a similar format.

You've got a foot in the door and that is a huge accomplishment, I pretty much agree with the others maybe give a quick call or email to Ash just to get an update.

I sent off my pilot script for a sitcom called 'Welcome To Stripe' around end of August time, Baby Cow were interested for a bit, they requested the full script after the initial 10 pages but then didn't want to take it any further, they enjoyed it, said it was genuinely funny, but it wasn't consistent enough in it's funniness, some plots worked better than others kind of thing. But that was really positive I felt. Also the script should be in the hands of the director of programmes at Channel K productions too.

I don't think I sent my script to Roughcut TV, what are their contact details? Can you send scripts by email?

I wanted to send mine there, but couldn't find enough info at the time.

Thanks for that original post, very interesting.

Thought I'd chip in too.

I've been writing since I was quite young, but being young everything I wrote was derivative rubbish and it wasn't until I was skiving off college in 04 that I wrote something that I was proud of. I'd read an interview with Bain & Armstrong of Peep Show writing fame that you should write any type of comedy - adults, kids, the lot! So I gave writing a kids show a go and what I considered a bloody good pilot (I still like it 3 years later which is good) but with nowhere for it go. However attending an awful media college in Gloucestershire has it's uses - they arranged some work experience on a two day telly shoot for Scrapheap Challenge, which was quite interesting. More importantly, after a few emails, found out someone knew a telly writing - who specialised in children's TV. I got very excited and sent it off to him, full of hope . . .

. . . And rightfully so - he loved it. He'd written lots for kids telly and knew his stuff. In fact he wnated top get involved. There was talk of getting more people onto the project and pitching it. Jesus, this is EASY, I thought to myself.

Okay, yeah, it didn't work out, he got offered some work (being freelance, he obviously couldn't turn it down) and wrote for a massive kids TV show which would have earnt him more cash than shafting about with some bearded nobody like me. Had I lived in London, I'd probably have got a meeting with him, but alas it didn't happen. I also think I missed a trick by not asking him to recommend me to an agent. You live and learn.

Anyway, gee'd up by that and having not got it off the ground - loads of other producers liked it, one from the BBC gave it a ton of feedback and really liked it but I think they left shortly after, so that was scuppered too. I decied that I'd plough on with two proper sitcoms and fire them off.

So, Christmas last year I mapped out two pilots, and had them both written by mid 07. I liked them both, but they lacked narrative looking back. They got some nice comments from producers, but nothing concrete, so I was looking at another 'not quite' scenario again.

That was until I found another producer who'd worked in kid's telly who could read my work. He did. He liked it. He said 'lets meet up'. I almost shit myself reading that. Not just because my county was flooding at the time.

He asked for more of my work, but many many months have passed and, despite assurances, he's still not yet read my two pilots. I took a dent today actually when a very important man at the BBC said the scripts were funny but were unfocussed. It's hard to take, but you move on.

So I'm going to start planning my forth pilot to send off to all and sundry next year.

Good job you didn't send it to the BBC, you'd get a faster reply on the NHS.

I would say 4 to 6 weeks is a fair response time for "lesser known production company" I've not heard of them anyway. sounds good though, very good. wish you all the best with it. And keep us posted.

Quote: ContainsNuts @ October 30, 2007, 3:20 PM

Good luck with your projects too. Did you get rid of all sketches from Vacancies or literally just 'reduce' them? I'm working on something with a similar format.

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I pretty much cut all the sketches and substituted their script time for a secondary episode plot. The only sketch-like elements I kept in had to somehow interact with the main body of the show.

The sitcom/sketch combo idea really came from how it worked so successfully (in my view) in 15 Storeys High. I didn't have a problem re-writing based on a production company meeting. I think you can compromise the structure of your project without losing your vision of what makes it funny. The first draft of 'Vacancies' is still sitting with other companies (including the Beeb). I think I could quite happily write different second drafts, if requested, based on different suggestions. As long as you don't water down your vision to the point where you have compromised to the extent that you've lost everything you originally enjoyed about your idea I don't think you're "selling out".

Quote: Martin Holmes @ October 30, 2007, 3:53 PM

I don't think I sent my script to Roughcut TV, what are there contact details? Can you send scripts by email?

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Roughcut TV
32 Newman Street
London W1T 1PU

I sent the first draft by post, which I think is their preferred method for receiving spec scripts. I don't know a general enquiry email for them to ask about email delivery. I do have a personal email, which I obviously can't post.

This looks really good Tim - well done and good luck.

I'm afraid I haven't read the whole thread but how long after you submitted your first stuff did you get the invitation to meet Ash?

That might give you an idea of timescales involved but they obviously know you and I would've thought they would look at that before any unsolicited stuff.