Ashes To Ashes Page 20

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2010, 11:42 AM BST

It fitted what had gone before; what else could it have been?

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Of course, but they could have written the series in any way they wanted, and had an ending to suit. My slight dissatisfaction with the ending implies slight dissatisfaction with the set-up to that ending.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2010, 11:42 AM BST

It turned out to be more or less exactly what I thought it would be. It was the rational ending in the context of the series we've been watching for the last few years.

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It is just my personal preference of course, but it felt uncomfortable to me. Bringing in God and The Devil just creates another level of fantasy, because 'heaven and hell' is a fiction. Sure, it had a logic to it, but I'd hoped for an explanation which fitted with reality. My bad.

Quote: Nogget @ May 22 2010, 12:35 PM BST

Bringing in God and The Devil just creates another level of fantasy, because 'heaven and hell' is a fiction.

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You can't known that for sure.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ May 22 2010, 12:04 PM BST

They didn't give you an ending you were happy with, that's all.
...
It's used that mythology, I don't understand the rip off comment at all really. Maybe it could have invented something entirely new, but it didn't. For me, the use of this familiar, emotive mythology, something everyone can understand and relate to, made the end all the more powerful.

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You misunderstand. I didn't say it didn't work for me. I'm not some fan-boy who feels short-changed (unlike when BSG ended, and I spat blood for a week, f**kers). I enjoyed the episode. It moistened my eyes, even though I didn't have a great deal emotionally invested in the characters.

I'm just saying that as a piece of storytelling it's lazy as hell.

There's a difference between drawing on millenia-old memes (like Lost with its good versus evil, light versus dark, fratricidal twins, etc, etc) and just using somebody else's story.

What a creative cop-out it would have been if Jacob was literally an angel, the man in black was literally a devil, and the island was literally Purgatory? That's what Ashes just did.

Imagine if BSG had arrived back at Earth to be welcomed by Captain Picard. The colonies were descendents of a lost Starfleet mission, and the whole thing was taking place in the Star Trek universe. The End. We'd all get it (us geeks, anyway) but the BSG writers couldn't claim to have not ripped off Gene Roddenberry.

Quote: ShoePie @ May 22 2010, 11:11 AM BST

I thought it explained everything without getting too weird and confusing like some shows do to pretend they're being clever.

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Agreed. It still left a couple of questions, but for me it was the episode that made most sense out of this whole series!

As somebody who's only just seen up to season 4 of Lost, can we avoid having any mention of what happens at the end of that in non-Lost threads. Thank you.

Quote: Nogget @ May 22 2010, 11:33 AM BST

It was tired, yes, and in a way a bit of a cop out (no pun intended), because while the whole series was a fantasy, the explanation turns out to be that it's a different sort of complete fantasy, the heaven and hell thing. It wasn't really a rational explanation.

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As opposed to the rational explanation of ... time travel?

How about a Budhhist version where we realise Gene is a reincarnated police Alsation?

Quote: sootyj @ May 22 2010, 12:48 PM BST

How about a Budhhist version where we realise Gene is a reincarnated police Alsation?

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Love it.

Or a Scientology version, where Alex is hallucinating because her Thetan level got too high.

Although I did enjoy it a lot, and think it wrapped everything up nicely, I think there was room for improvement. For instance, they could have done more with the idea of Hell. Just lift shafts going down somewhere was lazy and unimaginative. If a pub was heaven, then they could have had some satirical fun with what sort of place represent hell.

I also thought it would have been nice if they'd had a character who DCI Keats lured to hell earlier in the series. It would have made the finale more chilling if we knew that somebody had actually ended up "down below" for all eternity.

Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2010, 1:05 PM BST

If a pub was heaven, then they could have had some satirical fun with what sort of place represent hell.

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Well we know Hell will play Wham.

Quote: Nogget @ May 22 2010, 1:10 PM BST

Well we know Hell will play Wham.

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Interesting point though. What is the opposite of Pub?

Quote: chipolata @ May 22 2010, 12:45 PM BST

You can't known that for sure.

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You can't know that I don't know.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 22 2010, 12:46 PM BST

I'm not some fan-boy who feels short-changed (unlike when BSG ended, and I spat blood for a week, f**kers).

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Bit harsh - BCG has plenty of improvements over BSG. Don't forget the new writers area!

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 22 2010, 1:12 PM BST

Interesting point though. What is the opposite of Pub?

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Bup.

They presented officious accountability as being the Copper's Hell, which is fair enough.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ May 22 2010, 1:12 PM BST

Interesting point though. What is the opposite of Pub?

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Pub after last orders has been called.