Quote: sootyj @ May 5 2010, 8:45 PM BSTWell that's your opinion I tell it as I see it. And telling some one when they're shit doesn't smell like roses is supporting.
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I Wrote A Sitcom Page 4
It was just a bit of constructive criticism from Mr SootyJ
You don't need to react to it just take it on board if you like.
There's no need for "What have you ever had published?" IMHO
I know this isn't Critique, but an excerpt was posted.
I give up you win
Quote: sootyj @ May 5 2010, 8:45 PM BSTWell that's your opinion I tell it as I see it. And telling some one when they're shit doesn't smell like roses is being supporting.
Quote: Marc P @ May 5 2010, 10:33 PM BST?
I'm assuming the word used should've been: their, which changes the meaning of the sentence somewhat.
Been away a while so just catching up.
For my own 2P. BB, soul-destroying is sadly the general experience of all writers, from bottom to top. There is no alternative to taking the metaphorical slugs to the chin other than quitting. But there are plenty of chin-bruised writers here who know your experience well so take comfort in that.
As to the general idea of stereotyping, I think it's sometimes in the beholder's eye. Some readers see stereotyping where others see nothing wrong. And sometimes stereotyping is clearly allowed and/or ignored. Take Gimme Gimme as an example.
But stereotyping isn't just around racial or sexual differences. Any stock character (e.g. as SootyJ mentions the sissy of the 40s) is a stereotype. So maybe the stereotyping referred to by your reader is not related to the colour of skin but to the characters themselves? Or some other aspect of the script? Especially as you say, the colour was an afterthought. Here I'm assuming the show wasn't called "Oh, Lordy, Lordy."
That was a mild jest, btw, people.
And BB you really need to be a little more gracious when people comment on your work. Please.
sure, when it's constructive not destructive
Quote: bushbaby @ May 11 2010, 12:49 PM BSTsure, when it's constructive not destructive
What crit are we talking about? The initial one from the reader that prompted your original post?
I was referring to your comments made to Sooty.
Oh sorry, thought Sootjy could look after himself
BB, Sooty's first crit was concise but balanced. A positive point in the first sentence, a point for your consideration in the second. There was nothing destructive in his crit. When you took issue with it, he explained himself politely and with a little self-deprecation.
Quote: bushbaby @ May 11 2010, 5:03 PM BSTOh sorry, thought Sootjy could look after himself
How can you complain about a lack of support (which you have received here) and then spoil for a fight when a member offers their opinion?
There is no "looking after yourself" here because the behaviour that prompts it isn't tolerated.
I've been polite and have asked you respectfully.
Ok SlagA.
Perhaps you can answer me then. I have several gay, camp/transvestite friends and love that world/scene even though I am straight. Why then, if I write about it/them, am I stereotyping?
Quote: SlagA @ May 11 2010, 10:49 AM BSTAs to the general idea of stereotyping, I think it's sometimes in the beholder's eye. Some readers see stereotyping where others see nothing wrong. And sometimes stereotyping is clearly allowed and/or ignored. Take Gimme Gimme as an example.
But stereotyping isn't just around racial or sexual differences. Any stock character (e.g. as SootyJ mentions the sissy of the 40s) is a stereotype. So maybe the stereotyping referred to by your reader is not related to the colour of skin but to the characters themselves? Or some other aspect of the script? Especially as you say, the colour was an afterthought.
It's not the subject matter that defines stereotyping; that is, writing about an office isn't stereotypical simply because of The Office's (or any other work-related sitcom's) pre-existence. It's how how the writer approaches the subject that defines stereotype. And it's often more specifically how writers tackle and develop character that is most prone to stereotype.
It's a fine line, as I said above: one man's Gimme Gimme is another man's stereotyping. If we haven't read your script (and even if we have) it's far too subjective an area for a simple and definitive answer.
One person's rejection is another's person's commission. You'll need to submit the script to other companies to get a consensus.
If you changed the race of the characters at the end and didn't rewrite the script with that amendment in mind, then the only thing I can think is that the stereotyping reference isn't about race but about the characters, or their setup, or their relationships to each other.
Is the reference to stereotype specifically tied to race or campness?
they said all [three] the characters were stereotyped and I had to be careful about racism.
I have now taken 'black' out of the ref in the cast list and turned one of the characters to female.
I'd put the sitcom up here but I want to submit it to another comp.
I meant to say too that I had it acted out in front of 20 members of the writers circle and they were doubled up laughing, a couple had tears streaming down their face. If it's funny and that's what a sitcom is supposed to be, does it matter if there is stereotyping? Even though I think I have not stereotyped
Quote: bushbaby @ May 11 2010, 6:07 PM BSTthey said all three characters were stereotyped and I had to be careful about racism. I have now taken 'black' out of the ref in the cast list and turned one of the characters to female.
A black writer shared his experience of submitting a script to the US. He wrote the black dialogue phonetically to give rhythm and emphasis to the reader. The reader (who didn't know the writer's ethnicity) said that the dialogue was "deeply offensive to blacks, racist, and completely unrealistic."
The writer knows that the 'unrealistic' claim isn't true because it's speech he uses.
Do you trust the person who gave you feedback's judgement? Do they have a good track record and/or they someone whose opinion you trust?
If the answer's "no" to the above, then you could just forget their comments.
Quote: SlagA @ May 11 2010, 6:27 PM BSTA black writer shared his experience of submitting a script to the US. He wrote the black dialogue phonetically to give rhythm and emphasis to the reader. The reader (who didn't know the writer's ethnicity) said that the dialogue was "deeply offensive to blacks, racist, and completely unrealistic."
The writer knows that the 'unrealistic' claim isn't true because it's speech he uses.
I can understand that if say, he wrote it in patois but mine isn't, it's just normal neutral dialogue. I only made reference to black alongside the character names. Even so, had I been that critic, I would have advised him that there is no need to write in dialect, the actor does that if need be.
For instance if I was new to this board and didn't have my 'signature' at the bottom of each post. No one would know if I was black/camp/transvestite/white or even a smelly racoon....well, maybe not but you get my drift? That's why I have been able to change one character to female and take black out of the cast list and it still reads ok. There was one line which was ...'You still on Trinidad time?' but that was referring to him always being late and Trinidad is five hours behind GMT. I have changed that now to 'Forgot your Rolex?'