And might I add that in my experience, it is incorrect to dip them into a hot cup of tea.
Ban the Burka? Page 19
Quote: Nogget @ May 4 2010, 10:45 PM BSTAnd might I add that in my experience, it is incorrect to dip them into a hot cup of tea.
Obviously. It would make the tea too strong. A hot cup of water though...?
Quote: chipolata @ May 4 2010, 5:10 PM BST
I think he's done a packet which is dragging his trousers down.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTNo offence but that is bollocks. Making meths undrinkable is about alcohol being far too useful to society as a solvent to stop its use but not allowing people to enjoy the effects of drinking it without paying tax. Banning child porn is about protecting the children, not about protecting paedophiles from themselves. Government should not protect you from yourself, it should only protect others from you, which includes protecting the minority from the majority where necessary.
Yes the burkha arises from oppression of females but I also know a couple of Muslim women who would still rather wear the headscarf, long sleeves & skirts etc. as a modesty thing which stops blokes leering at them the whole time. They actually see the Western media pressure on women to wear mini skirts etc. as oppression of women by men as well - an attitude you can't really deny also exists in non-muslims if you noticed all the fuss about size zero models and anorexic 7 year olds.
This sounds like the preface from the pulped (and highly collectable) fledgling edition of the Ladybird book of feminism.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTBanning the veil isn't going to stop the attitudes - just hide them from public view. All it will do is make you feel less uncomfortable by not having it in sight.
Society is all about the difference between doing things publicly and privately.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTWhy shouldn't people be able to hide their faces if they want? What else do you want to ban? Sunglasses, beards and makeup? Hats and scarves as well? Fake tan and wedding veils?
I'm not in favour of banning any of the other things you mentioned, but your comparison is very disingenuous - with the possible exception of sunglasses - none of them in any way removes or limits social interaction. Sunglasses probably should be banned - shit musicians have been hiding their pill-stained eyes and criminal lack of self confidence behind them for years. They are also frequently used to perv secretly over women. I notice Aaron's wearing a pair in his avatar.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTIf you're that worried about stopping anyone having any privacy then just put a chip in everyone or a barcode on their forehead. Why not go the whole way and install cameras in every room in their houses just so you can make sure nobody gets any privacy and can't possibly ever get up to anything that you don't personally approve of?
You have a barcode in your pocket. The government directs and influences your life at every turn. most of the time most people don't notice it or care, because the control and supervision accords with their own choices.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTOh, and if you can't manage to communicate with someone just because you can't see every single little facial expression then there's probably something wrong with you. I work for a pharmaceutical company and, in the clean roooms, there are people who I pretty much only ever deal with when they are wearing a shapeless green suit, head cover, face-mask and safety glasses so that all you can actually see of each other are vague body shape and eyes behind the glasses - arguably less than you see of some people wearing veils - and yet we still manage to recognise each other and have perfectly normal conversations. How many of you complaining about not being able to see facial expressions would actually talk to any muslim women if they weren't wearing the veil? There's plenty about who don't wear it, so how many do you know?
Society is a compromise that we have all signed up to. As I said before, it is reasonable in a mass of people with differing goals and interests to present as undisguised a social 'face' as possible.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 4 2010, 10:09 AM BSTOr we could all just grow up and worry about the attitudes that lead to these things instead of trying to ban the irrelevant symptoms and delude ourselves that it has done anything to stop the problem.
Well, you know, we ban guns, but it's the bullets that hurt you.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 5 2010, 12:53 AM BSTSunglasses probably should be banned
I'm not giving up my sunnies for you or anyone. They make driving into direct sunlight glare much safer. I may not agree with what you wear, but I will defend to the death, the right of your menfolk to force you to wear it. No, that's not it.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 5 2010, 12:53 AM BSTYou have a barcode in your pocket.
I don't have a barcode in my pocket. I carry a driver's license but the cops only stop me about once a year and ask to see it during random breath testing.
On a related topic, as a child I would regularly wear a balaclava during the winter, as would anyone else, and no-one was at all worried that they couldn't see our faces. These days I wouldn't wear one in public, for fear of breaching the peace.
Society has got a lot more paranoid.
I still wear a balaclava in cold weather. And sometimes in the pub.
Quote: Kenneth @ May 5 2010, 5:56 AM BSTI still wear a balaclava in cold weather.
Ah yeah, that legendary Australian cold weather. Mid winter is just a few weeks away, and I see Cairns will barely scrape 30c today.
Mate, wrap up warm.
Quote: Kenneth @ May 5 2010, 5:56 AM BSTI still wear a balaclava in cold weather. And sometimes in the pub.
I see my nose has got longer in your avatar Kenneth. Soon it won't be me at all. Waaaaaahhh.
Quote: Nogget @ May 5 2010, 7:13 AM BSTAh yeah, that legendary Australian cold weather. Mid winter is just a few weeks away, and I see Cairns will barely scrape 30c today.
Mate, wrap up warm.
Winter is looming, with overnight temperatures of 4°C this week. Fortunately the large jars of mulberry liqueur that I began brewing in December should be ready for consumption by June, providing they don't explode.
Quote: EllieJP @ May 5 2010, 9:00 AM BSTI see my nose has got longer in your avatar Kenneth. Soon it won't be me at all. Waaaaaahhh.
I thought it was Steve Sunshine, what with the pretzel mask as a kind of impractical hat with eyeholes.
Now you've added a beard and moustache! 
Quote: Kenneth @ May 5 2010, 9:44 AM BSTWinter is looming, with overnight temperatures of 4°C this week.
By comparison, in London;
Summer is looming, with overnight temperatures of 3°C this week.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 5 2010, 12:53 AM BSTYou have a barcode in your pocket.
I've just checked my pockets. No barcodes.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ May 5 2010, 12:53 AM BSTThe government directs and influences your life at every turn. most of the time most people don't notice it or care, because the control and supervision accords with their own choices.
Which doesn't make it right...
Quote: chipolata @ May 4 2010, 5:10 PM BST
Interesting to note that the judge who ruled on it said that his actual punishment is that everyone else thinks he looks like an idiot.
And back on veils...
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/824616-woman-fined-for-wearing-a-burka-to-post-office
Note the husband's comment - "Husband Ben Salah Braim, 36, said: 'We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her.'"
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much less oppressed do you think she feels now she can't wear the veil? Like I said - the veil isn't the issue, it's only a symptom.
Besdides, it's not only muslims:
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 5 2010, 11:36 AM BSThttp://www.metro.co.uk/news/824616-woman-fined-for-wearing-a-burka-to-post-office
Note the husband's comment - "Husband Ben Salah Braim, 36, said: 'We knew about the law and I know that it's not against my religion but now Amel will have to stay indoors. I can't have other men looking at her.'"
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much less oppressed do you think she feels now she can't wear the veil? Like I said - the veil isn't the issue, it's only a symptom.
2 wrongs don't make a right. The next stage is to view his actions as spousal abuse and punish accordingly. Match that with more education and adovcacy for veiled women.
Our society has so very, very few expectations on it's citizens we need to stop feeling guilty about expecting women to be able to go out in public without wearing a sleeping bag or learn the national language.
Not should we feel a shred of guilt about punishing men who's view of women's rights never made it to the renaissance.
Quote: Afinkawan @ May 5 2010, 11:36 AM BSTBesdides, it's not only muslims:
Simple - just use the horse's reins as a belt.