Quote: Aaron @ April 27 2010, 12:55 PM BSTThe biggest problem with immigration - bigger than the levels - is the pattern of settlement. It's the same relatively small group of towns around the country that get them all. Public services are unable to cope.
You will be voting LibDem then?
Quote: sootyj @ April 27 2010, 10:50 AM BSTYup the white fascists also succeded with the Mardi Gras bomber. And have had a quite large number of arrests for planning terrorism, posession of fire arms/explosives etc etc.
The IRA managed to bring terror to London numerous times.
How ever if you are referring to Islamists and fundamentalists. Then I completely agree they are a very real danger (they're biggest threat is organsining and fundraising for international terror using the UK as a base). But they are not Muslims.
In the same way I may be Jeiwsh doesn't make me live on the Westbank and shoot Arabs. Nor is my Catholic chum a child abuser in black who votes however the pope tells him to,
The security is more part of an international war with an ideology. It's unfortunate it's tagic. It may be partially avoidable if maybe we stopped occupying other people's countries for the most spurious of reasons.
Oh and the ideology isn't Islam.
The desperate need to reduce the bloke who runs my local Indian takeaway to Osama Bin Laden. Isn't a simple fact. It's profound silliness.
Morning. You totally distort facts and what other posters have said to fit your unbendable point of view.
No, their biggest threat is to normal, average, innocent people in this country, including you and me. They HAVE MURDERED and attempted to murder many more, IN BRITAIN.
Yes they ARE Muslims, yes this is a simple, well known, proven fact, that you seem to want to deny.
No I didn't reduce any Indian takeaway owner to Bin Laden.
Your rank refusal to have Muslims criticised is creating a distortion of facts.
I am not suggesting they are all dangerous lunatics, just some of them. But I do think that not enough is being done by Muslim leaders in Britain to get rid of that strong lunatic element, to me it seems a bit more than a fringe. The Islamists seem to be getting a lot of support from a lot of young Muslims, in the TV progs and interviews that I've seen. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that many young British Muslims are quite radical, at least in their views. This is not a good sign for the future, and it doesn't help Islam's image at a time when Islam in the west is under attack.
Many many many average westerners do not want Muslims living with them in their country because of the terrible reputation they have for intolerance, religious extremism, refusal to adapt to host nation's culture, and rigid insistence on practicing their own culture even if it breaks our laws.
Are WE really to blame for this current state of relations, or should perhaps Muslims who've settled in the west be questioning their own role in how we got to this difficult situation?
Do you live in an area where Muslims and immigration is a big problem, Alfred?
Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2010, 11:09 AM BSTDo you live in an area where Muslims and immigration is a big problem, Alfred?
Ryhad?
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:58 AM BSTNo, their biggest threat is to normal, average, innocent people in this country, including you and me. They HAVE MURDERED and attempted to murder many more, IN BRITAIN.
Yes but then so have others. A friend of mine was shoved out of a window by a Budhist. Should I demand the arrest of the Dali Llama?
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:58 AM BSTNo, their biggest threat is to normal, average, innocent people in this country, including you and me. They HAVE MURDERED and attempted to murder many more, IN BRITAIN.
Well leaving asside July 7th they're pretty rubbish at it. Most murders are carried out in relationships or under the influence of substances. Let's ban marriage and booze then.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:58 AM BSTI am not suggesting they are all dangerous lunatics, just some of them.
Well atleast we agree there.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:58 AM BSTThere is a lot of evidence to suggest that many young British Muslims are quite radical, at least in their views.
That's true but it's also piss and wind. Most attacks in the UK have failed due tor eproting from within the community it's self.
Quote: chipolata @ April 28 2010, 11:09 AM BSTDo you live in an area where Muslims and immigration is a big problem, Alfred?
Yes, I recently moved from a town that was heavily populated with Muslims, and a fair number of other immigrants including east Europeans. A middle class town in Surrey! It changed so radically in just 20 years. This is why so many normal, placid Brits are getting so worried and vocal about immigration. It is radicalising the British now.
The Town has a massive Muslim population, its Mosque is I believe the oldest in Britain.
Did they affect ife for others?
Oh yes they did.
The retail park next door to the mosque would be jammed packed with worshippers' cars every afternoon. Every (non Muslim) I spoke to thought it was selfish, disrespectful, and a real hindrance to shopping there.
I don't know how radical some were, but some young males were very gangy and a few of them were very aggressive and antisocial. I know a lot of young women were scared to be out even in small groups.
I'm sure the rest were nice ordinary people.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 10:58 AM BSTMany many many average westerners do not want Muslims living with them in their country because of the terrible reputation they have for intolerance, religious extremism, refusal to adapt to host nation's culture, and rigid insistence on practicing their own culture even if it breaks our laws.
You see this is the crux of the issue. You keep switiching between "Muslim" and "extremist"
Which is it?
If you want to deal with religious extremism then I am with you 100% Ban the Burqa, expel fundamentalist preachers, shut down all charities that fund terrorist organisations.
Alot of this stuff is being done, but not fast enough.
But I'm not switching, the extemists are still Muslims - they are giving the moderates the same bad reputation.
How can an area, once a traditionally white British area know which ones in the influx of Muslims are going to be the extremists? Their easiest protest is to say 'No more Muslims' All Muslims will get tarred with the same brush unless their National leaders are seen to be more vocal in condemning the radicals - but we know they haven't been. Even wet liberal MPs have had to criticice the big Muslim groups for being so quiet on radicalism. As a result, many of us just do not trust Muslims as a whole.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 28 2010, 11:24 AM BSTYes
Fair enough. I only asked because it's not something I have much dealings with in my everyday life. But if you rub up against it more I can understand why it's a higher priority for you.
Well it's exactly the same problem the Catholic church have at the moment.
We dislike the loonies in our midst.
But we can't turn to the outside world as they scare us and judge us.
The more there is an active engagement with the liberal areas of a community, the more it issolates fanatics. This does actually happen, more often than you would think.
It just makes rubbish news.
Hehe! Good old Gordon - he's put his foot in it here!
Quote: bigfella @ April 28 2010, 12:45 PM BSTHehe! Good old Gordon - he's put his foot in it here!
What's he done? Genuine balls up, or just mildly embarrasing slip?
Called a woman he had been talking to a bigot - all picked up on a microphone as he was driven away.
The media are going mad.
Quote: bigfella @ April 28 2010, 1:12 PM BSTCalled a woman he had been talking to a bigot - all picked up on a microphone as he was driven away.
The media are going mad.
If she is a bigot, then there shouldn't be a problem surely?
I heard he dragged her into his car and raped her.
Quote: keewik @ April 28 2010, 12:44 AM BSTThis is a genuine question. What is it with you English about the French? I just can't understand the constant hatred.
This is a genuine question. What is it with you Scottish about the English? I just can't understand the constant hatred.
Quote: Timbo @ April 28 2010, 8:29 AM BSTYou will be voting LibDem then?
I've not yet had a lobotomy, no.