Actually Kev I didn't suggest doing them Radio 'style' - I said do them as Radio sitcoms and recording them as such. Quite a different thing old bean. Quite a different thing indeed. 
Sitcom (Com)Mission Page 74
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Quote: bushbaby @ April 20 2010, 11:14 PM BSTHi Ponderer, is it not that the judges know what they are looking for and what is workable or perhaps cheaper to produce but not necessarily the funniest?
My point really was that 'industry experts' vary in their opinions as much as ordinary punters. Without the audience vote the final judges would not have seen the sitcom they thought second best on the night. I think, as Ennie pointed out all decision systems are flawed. This is not as flawed as the ones you will come across when you try to get something commissioned. There will always be people who are unhappy (anyone who doesn't win by and large) with any system -it's called "Positive Attribution Error" (If I do well it's down to me, if I do badly someone or something else is to blame). I kind of like the idea (as Kev said) that the audience have some control, the trick is to ensure that manipulation of this is as difficult and unrewarding as possible. I think the current system covers this as well as can be expected. The other thing is to make the shows as attractive as possible for non-involved punters as this will water down the mates votes, which I am clearly not in favour of.
I think this all goes to show how subjective comedy is and how difficult it is to put it into a competition. A solution may be to have the same judges throughout (logistically difficult I know) and/or some way that all the sitcoms staged are judged against each other, rather than in heats.
It would also be great if there could be some real tangible prize for the winning script. Not money so much, as some sort of way of getting it made - either by tying the comp in to production company or broadcaster - or to be optioned. I dunno...just vague ideas.
Or abandon the competition element completely and just make it a showcase.
Of course this is all down to the show producers and what they want to achieve - a live show or find new sitcoms.
Quote: Marc P @ April 21 2010, 8:54 AM BSTActually Kev I didn't suggest doing them Radio 'style' - I said do them as Radio sitcoms and recording them as such. Quite a different thing old bean. Quite a different thing indeed.
I really like this idea, Marc. Apart from anything else it gives a calling card for writers/directors/actors etc. to throw around and thus rewards all who take part. I think competition will be an inevitable part of the process of Sitcommission and Sitcom Trials but this would ease the pain of an early exit.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 21 2010, 10:21 AM BSTI think this all goes to show how subjective comedy is and how difficult it is to put it into a competition. A solution may be to have the same judges throughout (logistically difficult I know) and/or some way that all the sitcoms staged are judged against each other, rather than in heats.
It would also be great if there could be some real tangible prize for the winning script. Not money so much, as some sort of way of getting it made - either by tying the comp in to production company or broadcaster - or to be optioned. I dunno...just vague ideas.
Or abandon the competition element completely and just make it a showcase.
Of course this is all down to the show producers and what they want to achieve - a live show or find new sitcoms.
The same judges would be a great idea but, as you say, probably unworkable.
I'm not sure you can remove competition even in a showcase. Wouldn't everyone want theirs to be the best in the showcase, or given the best place on the bill to have maximum potential to catch the eye?
The prize of getting your work sen on its feet by really influential people seems pretty good as it is, and I suspect the other ideas would be hard to organise.
Quote: Ponderer @ April 21 2010, 10:06 AM BSTMy point really was that 'industry experts' vary in their opinions as much as ordinary punters. Without the audience vote the final judges would not have seen the sitcom they thought second best on the night. I think, as Ennie pointed out all decision systems are flawed. This is not as flawed as the ones you will come across when you try to get something commissioned. There will always be people who are unhappy (anyone who doesn't win by and large) with any system -it's called "Positive Attribution Error" (If I do well it's down to me, if I do badly someone or something else is to blame). I kind of like the idea (as Kev said) that the audience have some control, the trick is to ensure that manipulation of this is as difficult and unrewarding as possible. I think the current system covers this as well as can be expected. The other thing is to make the shows as attractive as possible for non-involved punters as this will water down the mates votes, which I am clearly not in favour of.
Hi Ponderer, I'm finding the whole thing too complicated for me, how do you mean the judges would not have seen the 'second best' sitcom.
I thought it went like this.....
5pm judges/audience in place, four sitcoms, votes cast.
8pm judges/audience in place...same four sitcoms, votes cast
Quote: Ponderer @ April 21 2010, 10:28 AM BSTI really like this idea, Marc. Apart from anything else it gives a calling card for writers/directors/actors etc. to throw around and thus rewards all who take part. I think competition will be an inevitable part of the process of Sitcommission and Sitcom Trials but this would ease the pain of an early exit.
It would be the way I'd go - especially if the aim is to indeed find some new sitcoms which actually get made! Make it professional, make it half hour, make it an actual recording. Tie it in with a radio production company, bingo bongo. They wouldn't have to be broadcast quality necessarily but would make a darn good submission pilot. Good audio for voice is very easily achieved and post production can slicken up immensely. Like I say it's what the objective of it is really. What are the prime determinators?
Quote: Marc P @ April 21 2010, 11:14 AM BSTWhat are the prime determinators?
You sound like an evil android.
Nah... I'm like the Android Puppy!
All this discussion is putting me further and further off the idea of running the Trials this autumn
Poor attitude, that. People have paid good money to enter this comp. Given the problems with delayed second feedback and the voting system, entrants have every right to feel slightly aggrieved.
This is a great comp for aspiring writers to showcase their work, but only if run correctly. At present, the whole thing comes across as a bit shambolic. This thread is testament to that.
Quote: don rushmore @ April 21 2010, 11:35 AM BSTPoor attitude, that. People have paid good money to enter this comp. Given the problems with delayed second feedback and the voting system, entrants have every right to feel slightly aggrieved.
This is a great comp for aspiring writers to showcase their work, but only if run correctly. At present, the whole thing comes across as a bit shambolic. This thread is testament to that.
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Did we pay to enter this competition?
I certainly didn't and I'm not aware of anyone else that did.
Simon and Declan devote a lot of time and effort not just to the competition, but throughout the year to the workshops, for very little in return, other than their passion for comedy and for helping new writers.
I think that every writer that has this opportunity to have their work staged and be seen by industry professionals, have nothing but gratitude and respect for all the hard work and effort that they put in.
Yes, the audience voting aspect is obviously an issue, but the best sitcoms will eventually make it through to the finals and be seen by the following judges:
Jane Berthoud, Head of Comedy Production, BBC Radio
Shane Allen, Head of Comedy, Channel 4
Lucy Lumsden, Head of Comedy, Sky TV
This wouldn't be possible without Simon and Declan's efforts.
I think anyone that loses sight of this or gets wrapped up in the trivia of the voting structure, should just take a step back and consider just what a fantastic achievement this competition is.
Quote: bluer than blue @ April 21 2010, 12:18 PM BST------------------------------------
Did we pay to enter this competition?
I certainly didn't and I'm not aware of anyone else that did.
Simon and Declan devote a lot of time and effort not just to the competition, but throughout the year to the workshops, for very little in return, other than their passion for comedy and for helping new writers.
I think that every writer that has this opportunity to have their work staged and be seen by industry professionals, have nothing but gratitude and respect for all the hard work and effort that they put in.
Yes, the audience voting aspect is obviously an issue, but the best sitcoms will eventually make it through to the finals and be seen by the following judges:Jane Berthoud, Head of Comedy Production, BBC Radio
Shane Allen, Head of Comedy, Channel 4
Lucy Lumsden, Head of Comedy, Sky TVThis wouldn't be possible without Simon and Declan's efforts.
I think anyone that loses sight of this or gets wrapped up in the trivia of the voting structure, should just take a step back and consider just what a fantastic achievement this competition is.
Yes I would agree with all that Blue, they do certainly graft and do a tremendous job for writers, with apparently little monetary return.
They don't charge anyone for entering, and the feedback for which there is a charge, is optional. The workshops are amazing and amazingly cheap in comparison to other workshops.
My input on here was just a suggestion, trying to be helpful and for the next comp not this.
Quote: bushbaby @ April 21 2010, 11:02 AM BSTHi Ponderer, I'm finding the whole thing too complicated for me, how do you mean the judges would not have seen the 'second best' sitcom.
I thought it went like this.....
5pm judges/audience in place, four sitcoms, votes cast.
8pm judges/audience in place...same four sitcoms, votes cast
Sorry Bushbaby,
What I meant was my sitcom was eliminated by the industry judges in the semi final. We got a wildcard entry to the final due to having the most audience votes. We then came second in the final judged by the heads of comedy, but would not even have been there to be judged. Is that any clearer?
Quote: don rushmore @ April 21 2010, 11:35 AM BSTAt present, the whole thing comes across as a bit shambolic. This thread is testament to that.
I really don't agree Don - this thread is testament to the fact that Simon and Declan want to run the best competition possible and are open to all suggestions. They could quite easily have ignored everything here and just carried on with things as they were, and let the conversation die away. (I used to run online communities and did that all the bloody time - much easier than letting everyone else stick their oar in!) Instead, they're allowing people to have input and listening to all the feedback.
Still, I too vote for the system to stay as it is! (Is it going to be audience vote or judges who decide? 
)
And thanks Bluerthanblue - good luck in heat four!!
Quote: don rushmore @ April 21 2010, 11:35 AM BSTThis is a great comp for aspiring writers to showcase their work, but only if run correctly. At present, the whole thing comes across as a bit shambolic. This thread is testament to that.
I think this thread shows that people love to pick holes in what someone else has done either through intellectual curiousity, irritation at a lack of success or just boredom. I think it also shows there is no right answer on deciding which sitcoms go through. Every solution has it's downside.
EDIT: What Ennie said.
Quote: Ponderer @ April 21 2010, 12:37 PM BSTSorry Bushbaby,
What I meant was my sitcom was eliminated by the industry judges in the semi final. We got a wildcard entry to the final due to having the most audience votes. We then came second in the final judged by the heads of comedy, but would not even have been there to be judged. Is that any clearer?
ah yes, thanks, I get it now 