Quote: Tim Walker @ April 9 2010, 12:10 PM BSTJerry Sadowitz's act, however offensive to some, has a level of intelligence and awareness that Frankie Boyle doesn't even attempt to match.
I agree, that's why 50-50. Sometimes he comes off as trying a bit too hard to keep up the offensive routine and that's when he annoys me.
People with learning disabilities are among some of the most discriminated against in society. This just sounds mean and if he had any conviction in his humour he wouldn't have apologised. His act would have been something he was proud of and defensible.
I can't imagine Jim Davidson saying sorry he is a plane dealing asshole.
Here that Boyle you're sub Davidon.
Quote: Afinkawan @ April 9 2010, 12:15 PM BSTI agree, that's why 50-50. Sometimes he comes off as trying a bit too hard to keep up the offensive routine and that's when he annoys me.
Agreed, but I'm generally reassured that his routine tends to come from strong moral core.
Quote: Afinkawan @ April 9 2010, 12:15 PM BSTI agree, that's why 50-50. Sometimes he comes off as trying a bit too hard to keep up the offensive routine and that's when he annoys me.
Sadowtiz is a sort of massive meta gag as himbeing the biggest asshole ever and ultimately the eternal butt of all his own gags.
On a more esoteric note, I'd identify Frankie Boyle as a more extreme example of what happens when an alcoholic puts down the bottle but doesn't pick up the 12 Step Programme. A "dry drunk", as well call them, is amongst the most bitter, angry, self-pitying and self-hating people you will ever meet. (Get back in the rooms, Frankie. 
) 
Quote: sootyj @ April 9 2010, 12:21 PM BSTSadowtiz is a sort of massive meta gag as himbeing the biggest asshole ever and ultimately the eternal butt of all his own gags.
Well put. 
Quote: Tim Walker @ April 9 2010, 12:10 PM BSTI don't really care too much for the mother's distress, I care more for the way this kind of humour insidiously sanctions hate in society towards her daughter (who was not, I presume, in the audience).
You can't honestly believe that? Frankie Boyle makes a joke about downs Syndrome sufferers haircuts, and the audience go out hating people with downs syndrome? He's a regular Joseph Goebbels is our Frankie. You strike me as fairly intelligent, but that is total lunacy. And no, the girl with downs syndrome wasn't in the audience, if she was and he had of spotted her I doubt he would have made the joke. I understand your point, but I don't know what can be done about it, either you can say whatever you like in comedy or people start deciding what you can and can't say like they do on television, and the latter is a dangerous road to go down.
Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:26 PM BSTYou can't honestly believe that? Frankie Boyle makes a joke about downs Syndrome sufferers haircuts, and the audience go out hating people with downs syndrome? He's a regular Joseph Goebbels is our Frankie. You strike me as fairly intelligent, but that is total lunacy. And no, the girl with downs syndrome wasn't in the audience, if she was and he had of spotted her I doubt he would have made the joke. I understand your point, but I don't know what can be done about it, either you can say whatever you like in comedy or people start deciding what you can and can't say like they do on television, and the latter is a dangerous road to go down.
I am being completely serious and honest. It's a drip, drip, drip effect with these kind of hateful jokes. They do sanction hate in the mind of the audience, either consciously or subconsciously.
Why wouldn't he have made the joke if the girl with Down's syndrome was in the room? That's the question you really should be asking yourself.
Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:26 PM BSTYou can't honestly believe that? Frankie Boyle makes a joke about downs Syndrome sufferers haircuts, and the audience go out hating people with downs syndrome?
People with learning disabilities are by several scales more likely to be victims of crime, poor health treatment, unemployment, bullying and issolation. That's not to say disability isn't a subject for comedy, but mean spirited picking on the vulnerable is well shit.
I hate the way racism/sexist humour became unacceptable so we've jumped onto disablist comedy.
I hate censorship. But an absence of censorship requires artists to take responsibility for their own performances.
There's fair targets and there's unfair targets. I have found Boyle funny, but there's some things he's said that I haven't
I don't really like to comment on this particular event because I was neither there or seen a transcript but (if reports are true) he did (briefly) show some remorse when the couple told him they had a daughter with Down's Syndrome. He should think long and hard about this. If you wouldn't make a joke about something in front someone who you know has first experience experience, then you shouldn't tell that joke at all.
I've seen some very similar things posted on these message boards about disabilities, race, etc and it seems that's a lesson everyone could learn from.
Quote: Tim Walker @ April 9 2010, 12:31 PM BSTI am being completely serious and honest. It's a drip, drip, drip effect with these kind of hateful jokes. They do sanction hate in the mind of the audience, either consciously or subconsciously.
Why wouldn't he have made the joke if the girl with Down's syndrome was in the room? That's the question you really should be asking yourself.
Because then it becomes mean and all too real for people to laugh at. And Frankie Boyle is a reflection of society, not the other way around. He's tapping into something that is already there, and doing it successfully. Your beef isn't with Frankie Boyle, but society itself.
Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:36 PM BSTAnd Frankie Boyle is a reflection of society, not the other way around. He's tapping into something that is already there, and doing it successfully. Your beef isn't with Frankie Boyle, but society itself.
So you would defend a shamelessly racist comedian then? Plenty of racism around to "reflect". Well, good to know, at least you're being consistent.
Quote: Mickeza @ April 9 2010, 12:36 PM BSTBecause then it becomes mean and all too real for people to laugh at.
So it's fine if there isn't a "Mongoloid" in the room, which would make the "normal" people uncomfortable. Yep, that's a reasonable argument. 
At least Bernard Manning had the guts to make his anti-blacks jokes with the target in his sights.
DOn't blame me, it's society that's a bucket of shite I just reflect it.
Are you Gordon Brown's campaign adviser?
Yes prejudice and fear of the other is out there. A comedian who made jokes about women liking rape, criminal blacks, sinister Jews and what ever would probably have a succesful career (off telly admittedly). Because there's shit out there is no excuse for living in a metaphorical toilet.
That said I find this speech guiltily hilarious.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 9 2010, 12:35 PM BSTThere's fair targets and there's unfair targets. I have found Boyle funny, but there's some things he's said that I haven't
I don't really like to comment on this particular event because I was neither there or seen a transcript but (if reports are true) he did (briefly) show some remorse when the couple told him they had a daughter with Down's Syndrome. He should think long and hard about this. If you wouldn't make a joke about something in front someone who you know has first experience experience, then you shouldn't tell that joke at all.
I've seen some very similar things posted on these message boards about disabilities, race, etc and it seems that's a lesson everyone could learn from.
Whilst I agree with this to a certain extent it's amazing what some people find offensive and get upset about.
I recently made a joke about writing some gags for radio and said that on hearing them "I felt like a proud father", to which I got told off for comparing the writing of a few puns to the joy of bringing a life into the world!
I don't really like "offensive" humour but everyone has different boundaries so it's very hard to know where the lines should be drawn.
Personally I am a bit surprised that someone who has voluntarily gone to see the notoriously offensive, Frankie Boyle, could then be surprised when he told some jokes that people would find offensive. It's interesting that, presumably, she was okay with other offensive jokes as long as they were about things that weren't personal to her.
Quote: Tony Cowards @ April 9 2010, 12:42 PM BSTI recently made a joke about writing some gags for radio and said that on hearing them "I felt like a proud father", to which I got told off for comparing the writing of a few puns to the joy of bringing a life into the world!
Was that "the wife" by any chance? 
I think taking offence as that simile can officially be described as over-sensitivity, but I take your point. Though, as a society (within reason) I think that it's healthier to challenge potentially negative standpoints than to ignore them. As a proud father and a fan of your puns, Tony, I could certainly see the reasons to equate the two.
Quote: Tim Walker @ April 9 2010, 12:45 PM BSTWas that "the wife" by any chance?
I think taking offence as that simile can officially be described as over-sensitivity, but I take your point.
No, it wasn't "the wife" but an old acquaintance who's a father and, for whatever reason, took offence at a throwaway turn-of-phrase, it shocked me but just goes to show that you can offend some people doing virtually anything.