Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 1:11 PM BSThttp://www.stevelawson.net/2010/04/my-letter-to-the-musicians-union-about-the-digital-economy-bill/
See where I lose sympathy is when people call it one of the most potentially "catastrophic" pieces of legislation ever and liken it to nazi Germany.
I would really like to see an informed argument against it from someone who is not directly involved in some way.
Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 1:26 PM BSTWhy were you sick, Ellie?
24 hour bug I think. Still don't feel 100% but I am back to work of course.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 8 2010, 1:31 PM BSTSee where I lose sympathy is when people call it one of the most potentially "catastrophic" pieces of legislation ever and liken it to nazi Germany.
I would really like to see an informed argument against it from someone who is not directly involved in some way.
I don't see mentions of the Nazis in either article. Perhaps in the comments?
Anyway, I don't think that the TechCrunch article is by anyone directly involved?
Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 1:48 PM BSTI don't see mentions of the Nazis in either article. Perhaps in the comments?
Anyway, I don't think that the TechCrunch article is by anyone directly involved?
Regardless of what view you take on it, it shouldn't be rushed though, is this even picking up much interest in the papers?
To be honest though, seems like MPs are trying to pass something through they have no idea about.
Just to quote one article an MP said to avoid people accessing your WiFi "just put on a password" Are they f**king retarded, if it was that simple as putting a password here and there, there wouldn't be as much of a problem.
Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 1:48 PM BSTI don't see mentions of the Nazis in either article. Perhaps in the comments?
Anyway, I don't think that the TechCrunch article is by anyone directly involved?
From the TechCrunch article:
In 1938 Winston Churchill made a radio speech which was broadcast to America, describing what was happening as Nazi forces spread across Europe.
"The stations of uncensored expression are closing down; the lights are going out; but there is still time for those to whom freedom and parliamentary government mean something, to consult together."
Perhaps if he'd been around today and au fait with the Internet he might have used the same phrase to describe what is going on in legislatures across Europe.
So far I'm not bothered about the bill one way or another - I don't see how it's going to effect me, but I genuinely want to find out more. I see people saying its effect will be "catastrophic" but I still don't quite see how.
What will it really mean to the average person?
Quote: SlagA @ April 8 2010, 1:25 PM BSTI always clone a pair of identical effects in adjoining patches, one clean and one distorted (if the box supports overrive); that way you can seemlessly move into distortion while keeping the FX at the same settings / levels.
Sure, but what about if you want to be able to use some of the other myriad of effects? It seems to me that I need to clone the 'main' sound and have that always available just a few clicks away, so that I don't get stranded mid-song. Or simply have more switches; why did they only give me two? Pah!
Come back noisy stomp boxes, all is forgiven!
Quote: Paul W @ April 8 2010, 1:50 PM BSTRegardless of what view you take on it, it shouldn't be rushed though, is this even picking up much interest in the papers?
Quote: Paul W @ April 8 2010, 1:50 PM BSTTo be honest though, seems like MPs are trying to pass something through they have no idea about.
Yes, that is exactly what's happened. To be fair to the few who were in the house and debated last night, most were against the bill and were open in admitting that they didn't really understand most of it. Unfortunately, about 200 more MPs then appeared from nowhere to vote it through.
Quote: Paul W @ April 8 2010, 1:50 PM BSTJust to quote one article an MP said to avoid people accessing your WiFi "just put on a password" Are they f**king retarded, if it was that simple as putting a password here and there, there wouldn't be as much of a problem.
That was Stephen Timms. Have you seen him? I'm pretty sure he is retarded. He certainly appears to have been underdeveloped in the womb.
Quote: Nogget @ April 8 2010, 2:02 PM BSTSure, but what about if you want to be able to use some of the other myriad of effects?
Yep, Clone the main sound regularly on easy to remember numbers. I've moved away from huge FX changes in songs and tend now to switch between mild chorus, reverb and delay on / off. I use the on for lead-y bits - I won't say lead as I never play lead, just rhythm that sounds like it could be lead.
If you are using vastly different FX between songs, I'd arrange them so you move up through the banks throughout a gig. Intersperse it with your main sound to allow for impromptu set changes etc.
What FX box are you using?
Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 2:08 PM BST
Steven Hawkings had children?
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 8 2010, 2:02 PM BSTFrom the TechCrunch article:
In 1938 Winston Churchill made a radio speech which was broadcast to America, describing what was happening as Nazi forces spread across Europe.
"The stations of uncensored expression are closing down; the lights are going out; but there is still time for those to whom freedom and parliamentary government mean something, to consult together."
Perhaps if he'd been around today and au fait with the Internet he might have used the same phrase to describe what is going on in legislatures across Europe.
So far I'm not bothered about the bill one way or another - I don't see how it's going to effect me, but I genuinely want to find out more. I see people saying its effect will be "catastrophic" but I still don't quite see how.
What will it really mean to the average person?
Ah ok, sorry. Yes, well I don't think that the comparison was really so much with the Nazis as the erosion of free speech and how the attitude to such has changed so drastically.
As for the consequences of the bill...
If your daughter, in a few years, is browsing around and decides to check out a song without buying it first - no matter if she intends on then pestering you to spend the few pence it costs to buy it properly - then you could find yourself with a letter of warning.
If you're running a wireless network and someone breaks into it and starts downloading copyrighted content without paying for it, you could find yourself with a letter of warning.
And in neither case would you have any opportunity to protest innocence or otherwise address the situation.
As for websites, any organisation will now be able to ask a court to essentially close a website to the UK. It doesn't even have to be doing anything illegal at the time. If it has in some way provided or facilitated access to copyrighted material in the past, then it can be blocked. If they think it MIGHT in FUTURE do so, then it can be blocked. The BCG could be shut down because people have posted links to YouTube clips.
And those are just the intended consequences of a couple of points of the bill. You just need to look at other recent misuses of similarly monitoring legislation to get an idea of where it could go: anti-terrorism legislation being used to freeze the assets of banks; anti-terrorism legislation being used to monitor where people live, and what they put in their bins.
There's also a similar proposed bit of legislation that would allow HMRC to intercept and open any item of post that they want. It's true that to an extent they can already do this, but they have to notify you first and you have to be there when they open it. If this proposed Labour bill gets its way, they won't even have to tell you that they've done it.
And make no mistake about it, this WILL lead to the mass interception of and snooping of private e-mail accounts, of page-by-page tracking of the websites you visit, and other detailed, individually identifiable monitoring of your internet activity.
With regard to the economy, it is both certain and inevitable that companies will move overseas in order to avoid this regulation and snooping as much as possible. It's also equally certain that companies will be founded overseas, whilst they might otherwise (and at present) be started here. Both counts would, naturally, starve the economy of tax revenue that the Labour Party has well-and-truly ensured that we desperately need.
Welcome to 'Digital Britain'!
Quote: SlagA @ April 8 2010, 2:11 PM BSTI've moved away from huge FX changes in songs and tend now to switch between mild chorus, reverb and delay on / off. .
I admit that I don't really *need* to use most of the FX, but it's quite fun to be able to, say, pitch shift in real time. When I were a lad, this sort of thing was impossible, due to the time lag.
However, even if I use just a few 'traditional' effects, the combinations soon become unwieldy. Reverb, reverb+ OD, +fuzz, +wah, +delay, then any combination of those, like clean+delay, or wah+OD...and that's before adding desirable stuff like phaser and chorus...let alone all the weird stuff which would never really be useable Live.
Quote: SlagA @ April 8 2010, 2:11 PM BST.
What FX box are you using?
Zoom G2.1u, only £50 off eBay. My first delay pedal cost more than that, 25 years ago, when £50 could buy you a house and an ex-member of the cabinet.
Quote: Aaron @ April 8 2010, 2:24 PM BSTAnd make no mistake about it, this WILL lead to the mass interception of and snooping of private e-mail accounts, of page-by-page tracking of the websites you visit, and other detailed, individually identifiable monitoring of your internet activity.
They do this already. No shock.
I don't do anything wrong, so I'm not bothered.
They can track me by satellite for all I care... which they probably already do after inserting that probe in my arse.
Quote: EllieJP @ April 8 2010, 2:40 PM BSTThey can track me by satellite for all I care... which they probably already do after inserting that probe in my arse.
CIA Special Agent Ann Summers.
I should also add to my previous post that that doesn't take into account that such a serious and potentially powerful bill was rushed through Parliament in just a few days, with very little understanding from anyone (as illustrated in the house last night, and as admitted and protested as such by many speakers).
I realise it's probably not an uncommon pattern of turnout in this 'democracy' (a clearly laughable notion), but this is a good rundown of the bill's process: http://debillitated.heroku.com/
Thanks for explaining it a bit more Aaron.