Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 15 2009, 9:35 PM GMTHarry Hill isn't being branded as the best thing in comedy at the moment.
I think Michael McIntrye won best new stand up. Not best thing in comedy.
Anyway, take some comfort that Hill got two awards to McIntyre's one.
I just don't like McIntyre - no jealousy. It's his presentation I don't like.
I don't think Harry Hill has ever had a bad word to say about anyone although I'm willing to be proved wrong.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ December 13 2009, 7:28 PM GMTthe likes of MaCyntyre
Where do you get these crazy nutbar spellings from? Particularly when everyone else has been getting it just right!
Quote: Griff @ December 13 2009, 7:57 PM GMTHow much apprenticeship does Ricky Gervais have to serve? He's been doing standup since the late 90s and Edinburgh shows since 2001. Ten years not enough?
Ten years now. Given those dates, it sound like it took him 3 or 4 years to get from nothing to super-comic.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 13 2009, 8:22 PM GMTIt definitely isn't a majority that like him. I know just as many people who don't like him as do. Also, the people who tend to not like him are the people who actively watch comedians
...who are the minority.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 13 2009, 8:22 PM GMTthe people who do like him tend to get all of their comedy from 'Live at the Apollo' and panel shows.
...who are the majority.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 13 2009, 8:22 PM GMTIf I paid £20 to see a bloke talk about going shopping with actions for an hour I would be pissed off.
Does it matter to you what someone talks about? Surely as long as it makes you laugh, you'd be happy; the subject of the material is not directly linked into that.
Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 13 2009, 9:15 PM GMTJesus Aaron what's going on, disrespect isn't a verb.
Err. "Failing to respect" I guess I meant.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 15 2009, 4:24 AM GMTLet's take Stewart Lee as an example. He's been in the game a long time and is regarded as one of the best, yet has never really had mainstream success.
He's worked a hell of a lot harder than McIntyre and isn't as high up this metaphorical ladder. So yes, McIntyre did jump steps. He's not the only one, but he is one of the more extreme cases of it.
That's Lee's fault for not writing material that appeals to the masses; where the money is. And equally, that is McIntyre's strength and where his success lies. He's not risen above his station, as you seem to be implying.
And to say that McIntyre hasn't worked hard to get where he is - or hasn't worked as hard as others - is just plain ignorant. Nevermind Stewart Lee, it seems that you're the jealous one, on behalf of a comedian who appeals more to your sense of humour.
Quote: Aaron @ March 2 2010, 4:51 PM GMTThat's Lee's fault for not writing material that appeals to the masses; where the money is.
He apparently would have been a rich man off the back of Jerry Springer: The Opera, but all the loony protesting put a stop to that.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 15 2009, 3:26 PM GMTA very large portion of McIntyre's fan base aren't typical comedy fans
I think you'll find it's the other way around. We're not the typical comedy fans (whether we like him or not). We're particularly devoted to it. If "typical" comedy fans - i.e. the majority - didn't like him, then he wouldn't be the success he is.
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 15 2009, 3:26 PM GMTI disagree. A very large portion of McIntyre's fan base aren't typical comedy fans, maybe have never even seen stand-up before him, so without his mysterious rise to fame he would not have the army of fans that he does today because they simply would have never discovered him. He would still be gigging small venues and staying relatively unknown without TV.
PhQnix said "If McIntyre couldn't make as many people laugh as he does he wouldn't be where he is today and it really is as simple as that." What is there to argue with? You've just made the same point but from a different angle: if he didn't make as many people laugh (PhQnix), he would still be doing small venues (you), not progressing to TV and arenas. Why do you look down upon the public so much?
Quote: Chris Forshaw @ December 15 2009, 3:26 PM GMTMock the Week is the BBC's flagship panel show so I would say it probably isn't aimed at a niche market.
If Mock The Week was the BBC's "flagship panel show", it would be in a regular, prime-time slot on BBC One. Like its actual "flagship panel show", Have I Got News For You.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ March 2 2010, 4:56 PM GMTHe apparently would have been a rich man off the back of Jerry Springer: The Opera, but all the loony protesting put a stop to that.
I hated the show myself, but to be impartial: Yes, it's a shame that things get crushed because of morons finding offence and protesting to things. Quite depressing at times.
McIntyre, Kay, Gervais appeal to the masses for the same reason that some incredibly boring songs are in the charts and Avatar is the biggest grossing film of all time. It's as said above between "hardcore" and "mainstream". Long-standing comedy fans tend to get bored of expected formulas, cliches, easy jokes etc. because they've had so much exposure to those things. It ceases to be surprising and therefore loses its impact. That's why the "hardcore" tend to go for people like Stewart Lee who are aiming to surprise and entertain THEM rather than the mainstream.
People who don't have such an avid interest in "the arts" will not be bored by what we would think of as predictability because they may be less likely to predict it. They're also more likely to be turned off by more experimental forms because it doesn't conform to ideas of "what comedy/music/film is supposed to be".
So some of what we would think of as the hardest working comedians, bands, filmmakers etc are unlikely to achieve mainstream success but they'll probably become cult and receive critical acclaim (which many of those artists would prefer anyway).
I think any jealousy there is over McIntyre and others is unwarranted and pointless. You can't tell people what's funny. The majority will like less "clever" things and that's what'll make money so you can either dumb down or stop complaining.
When it comes to awards, though. Surely the likes of McIntyre et al have already been rewarded by their millions of pounds and massive fanbase. It would be better to give recognition to those that have impressed the critics and who are most respected by their peers.
The Gervais bashing at the Comedy awards a few years ago I think wasn't totally down to jealousy.
He has done the big headed ego schtick at the British Comedy Awards every year for nearly a decade so it was just boring seeing him do it again.
I like Gervais personally but I am starting to find it tiresome how he does that exact same thing every award show.
The McIntyre incident though was purely down to jealousy. I don't like him but he seems a nice enough guy so why else would they mock him?
I think a few people in this thread need to repeat after me "I am a comedy snob, I am a comedy snob, I am a comedy snob". Of course there is jealousy in comedy, and like all forms of jealousy, it's not very nice. However it's what you get when you have an industry full of smart assholes who think they are the bee's nuts.
Can someone explain to me why Michael McIntyre's comedy is worse less than Stewart Lee's? He makes people laugh, which I thought was the primary goal of being a comic, in fact he makes an awful lot of people laugh, more so THAN Stewart Lee, so I fail to see how he's a worse comic. For the record I don't find him particularly funny, but he is damn good at what he does, and for that I respect him, just like everyone else should.
P.S I am also a comedy snob, I've just decided to stop being one for a second in order to comment on this thread.
Quote: Mickeza @ March 2 2010, 7:39 PM GMT
Can someone explain to me why Michael McIntyre's comedy is worse less than Stewart Lee's? He makes people laugh, which I thought was the primary goal of being a comic, in fact he makes an awful lot of people laugh, more so THAN Stewart Lee, so I fail to see how he's a worse comic.
I don't think you could really describe anybody as better or worse, comedy's subjective. The only difference is going to be in audience and the reasons why they watch comedy.
The reason some see Stewart Lee as a "better" comedian is because he appeals to critics. The reason they like him is because he does something a little bit different that is still able to catch their attention despite all the comedy they see.
Quote: sglen @ March 2 2010, 7:46 PM GMTI don't think you could really describe anybody as better or worse, comedy's subjective. The only difference is going to be in audience and the reasons why they watch comedy.
I completely agree, but some people put down McIntyre because of the content he uses in his jokes, like it's somehow worth less than the content of a Stewart Lee joke. At the end of the day a laugh is a laugh, and to disrespect someone just because he's not making people laugh with biting social satire is elitism in all it's ugly form. That's not his thing, so what? People find him funny, end of story.
Quote: Mickeza @ March 2 2010, 7:55 PM GMTto disrespect
So, why isn't disrespect a verb? That's an oversight. It's useful. Make it so!
EDIT: Done. In the 17th century, in fact.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/that-annoying-new-verb-%E2%80%9Cdisrespect%E2%80%9D/
There has to be some degree of objectivity or universality in comedy tho, just as there is in all arts. If there wasn't set ideals of what was brilliant and what was naff and all inbetween, then we wouldn't get such masters from time to time, like for British comedy, Milligan, Cleese, Cook, even Victoria Wood, these are all acknowledged masters of comedy and become very popular, the majority of consumers say they are great, that surely equates to a system of universality and must make humour largely objective. Some won't agree but they'll be vastly outvoted by the majority.
Quote: sglen @ March 2 2010, 7:58 PM GMTSo, why isn't disrespect a verb? That's an oversight. It's useful. Make it so!
EDIT: Done. In the 17th century, in fact.
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/that-annoying-new-verb-%E2%80%9Cdisrespect%E2%80%9D/
I never even knew there was an argument for it not being a verb, if you can respect someone then surely you can disrespect them also? Plus I hear it used an awful lot on the hippy hoppy albums I own.
Then it's in public usage, which means it'll already have or soon be getting an OED listing. I think it's fine as a verb.