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Lazzard - are you quite willing to admit that your writing contains no element of poetry, no politics, no discourse?
Dennis Potter, Trevor Griffiths, David Hare, David Edgar, Harold Pinter, Caryl Churchill - all writers with poetic and political vision whose work was, at one time, often seen on television.
Yes indeed I do think that this is currently a black and white issue - the issue that writing which is either overtly political eg; Berkoff, Bond, and/or uniquely idiosyncratic and poetic i.e.non-naturalistic is censored from appearing on television because drama has been determined by the television establishment which has structured itself to eliminate possible dissent and its expression. Though we might be able to point to one or two examples where this is not the case (in comedy perhaps but rarely drama) it has, in comparision to a time when we had 8 new plays per week, been exiled from television largely, but not exclusively, due to the demise of the single play which, as with theatre, provides for the expression of the voice of the individual writer.
I would maintain that this decision is expressly political and it is the weight of funding/commmissioning which largely falls against the expression of the individual voice which has seen the best of our writers such as Howard Barker or Edward Bond in exile or excluded from the means to express themselves in television.

It would be obtuse of (some) writers to claim that the purveying of drama e.g. soaps which explicitly negates the idea of political discourse/dissent in its content has not deliteriously affected writers and the writing culture by establishing a paradigm which writers must conform to in order to get compromised writing seen. Soaps do not represent the individual voice and certainly not that of the dissenter - they represent the power of the ruling media executive.

But you talk in extremes again - as if there is nothing in between Berkoff and Emmerdale!!
That's just plain silly.
There's a ton of good writing on TV that I would be more than proud to stick my name to.
And I'm sure the guys stuck on daytime soaps have aspirations above and beyond -but what they're doing is writing for a living - something the majority of people on this forum would love to to do.

Can you give me an example of drama that is 'between' Berkoff and Emmerdale?

You write about drama as though it is a colour graded paint guide while missing the point of what I have posted entirely.

When was the last time you saw a Berkoff or Sarah Kane or Caryl Churchill play on television?

Quote: vigo @ February 8 2010, 1:06 PM GMT

Can you give me an example of drama that is 'between' Berkoff and Emmerdale?

You write about drama as though it is a colour graded paint guide while missing the point of what I have posted entirely.

When was the last time you saw a Berkoff or Sarah Kane or Caryl Churchill play on television?

Watch Doctors Vigo.

Re; Watch 'Doctors'

but not the work of David Hare?

Drama has been formatted and coralled into 'cop' or 'doctor' or soap shows and this means that the single play which at one time was the greatest opportunity for writers and directors - Willy Russell,Alan Bleasedale,Alan Bennett,Mike Leigh, Stephen Frears, etc has been effectively -and conveniently- closed down. This means LESS WORK for writers -or as Lazzard puts it writers who are STUCK because they are having to write for executive decided shows rather than on their own material which in a previous Writers culture was actively encouraged.

Quote: vigo @ February 8 2010, 1:25 PM GMT

Re; Watch 'Doctors'

but not the work of David Hare?

Drama has been formatted and coralled into 'cop' or 'doctor' or soap shows and this means that the single play which at one time was the greatest opportunity for writers and directors - Willy Russell,Alan Bleasedale,Alan Bennett,Mike Leigh, Stephen Frears, etc has been effectively -and conveniently- closed down. This means LESS WORK for writers -or as Lazzard puts it writers who are STUCK because they are having to write for executive decided shows rather than on their own material which in a previous Writers culture was actively encouraged.

Doctors has the single play within it's format - sometimes exclusively so, garnering nominations for Bafta and Golden Roses.

I didn't watch The Street but I fancy it took a similar line.

Form doesn't have to dictate content.

Quote: Marc P @ February 8 2010, 1:38 PM GMT

I didn't watch The Street but I fancy it took a similar line.

Yes it did. It was very good. I get the feeling though that a lot of people turned their noses up at it in preference of American TV drama imports.

Re; Form doesn't have to dictate content.

Except if its decided by TV execs.

So we can expect a Monty Python episode of 'The Bill' soon perhaps?

An exploding Phil Mitchell,,,, Mighty Boosh style

he he he :S

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2009/jan/19/david-hare-television

Well you are confusing genre with form there. I am no defender of TV at the moment, but there opportunities for voice to be heard. Not as it was, but then TV itself isn't as it was.

The single play allows the writer to dictate form/genre content - the fact that you seperated form/genre shows the extent to which TV execs now dictate this to writers. This once wasnt the case - look at the work of Dennis Potter for instance. The excellent thing about the television culture described in the earlier link posted about David Hare was that it was the WRITER who led the drama - not the form, genre, celebs,actors or series or execs. The result was that there was once some wild, exciting challenging material on television from a diversity of voices. Jimmy McGovern who is an advocate for the return of the single play once described writing for Brookside as having to fight with one hand tied behind his back. The Street refers back to the earlier era when we had a single play eg; Play for Today,Wednesday Play for television which necessitated a high turnover of plays - not all good - but far more opportunities for writers. With cop/doctor series there is a necessity for the drama to be naturalistic- again this wasnt always the case where there used to be a range of wildly imaginative, strange and challenging single play drama.

Quote: vigo @ February 8 2010, 1:06 PM GMT

1.Can you give me an example of drama that is 'between' Berkoff and Emmerdale?

2.You write about drama as though it is a colour graded paint guide while missing the point of what I have posted entirely.

3.When was the last time you saw a Berkoff or Sarah Kane or Caryl Churchill play on television?

1. Anything by Poliakoff; Wallander was very well written; Red Riding was fantatstic. I'm afraid you are discrediting what, at heart, is quite an interesting arguement by your rigid, puritanical positioning.

2. So drama is either brilliant or rubbish? Blimey! In which case I'm forced to move Berkoff to the rubbish pile as I don't rate him as brilliant, but merely very good. And I'll be the judge of whether I've missed the point. You're confusing disagreement with incomprehension. A common mistake among hard-liners.

3. When was the last time Dr. Feelgood were in the charts? It's a diffferent landscape, things have changed.

This much crossness can't be good for your creative juices.
I shall endeavour to make surte it doesn't put me off my stride.

Quote: Lazzard @ February 8 2010, 3:00 PM GMT

This much crossness can't be good for your creative juices.
I shall endeavour to make surte it doesn't put me off my stride.

"--- and it's goodnight from him!"

Quote: Morrace @ February 8 2010, 3:47 PM GMT

"--- and it's goodnight from him!"

Whistling nnocently

:D

Hi Lazzard baby,

Your comment - 'I would move Berkoff to the rubbish pile as he is merely very good'

Is that very good to merely good, or merely good to rubbish?

Sounds very 'puritanical' to me.

p.s.does your judgement go up and down with your blood pressure?
*console

Sarah Kane in the Dr.Feelgood era? Thats not a post-ironic reference is it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2005/oct/12/theatre

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