To be fair to Sullivan, he's asked a question and gives a half baked answer. He's not arguing a rigorous thesis, backed with evidence etc,. And his opinions do chime with a lot of older viewers who for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, feel that modern comedy isn't for them.
Quote: Griff @ January 17 2010, 1:17 PM GMTI think designing comedy for older viewers is every bit as patronising as producing things like Coming Of Age for teenagers. I can't imagine that when I turn 70 I'll suddenly start finding Last Of The Summer Wine funny just because I'm the same age as the actors.
Yes I understand what you are saying. There's a heck of a lot of sitcoms I like and find very funny, my favourite being Gimmie Gimmie which isn't designed for an 'older' audience but I do long for a sitcom with older characters in it.
I think if you forget the swearing and accusing other writers of being lazy for using it and look at other parts of what he said. He mentions he prefers US sitcoms so let's compare what new comedy is being shown over there this coming week :-
How I Met Your Mother (8pm)
Accidentally on Purpose (8.30pm)
Two and a Half Men (9pm)
Big Bang Theory(9.30pm)
New Adventure of Old Christine (8pm)
Gary Unmarried (8.30pm)
Modern family (9pm)
all in Prime time on the major networks
and in comparison we have
The Persuasionists (10pm) and Coming of Age (10.30pm) and Rab C Nesbitt (9.30pm)
If anybody's got a right to make sweeping statements, it's the guy who wrote Only Fools and Horses. And let's be honest there is a problem with making quality mainstream comedy nowadays. I think his views are naive, and he picks the wrong target, but there are very real problems with mainstream comedy now. Mainly that it's shit.
Quote: Griff @ January 17 2010, 1:30 PM GMTI don't mind him comparing British to American comedy, that's a whole different argument. And given the vast resources of American TV vs British TV, I think British TV holds up pretty well, much as I love Curb, 30 Rock, An American Workplace etc.
What seems petty and untrue is his comparison of old vs new British comedy. If you went through the TV schedules of whatever era he's talking about, you would find a raft of stinkers alongside the fondly remembered classics.
In the 70s there wasn't any swearing as far as I can remember. There will have been flops but mainly sitcoms written then did have a complete story in each episode. The storyline being the hardest thing to do about writing. It's much easier to write a 'piece' of comedy [and stick swear words in for effect] as opposed to a complete story....i.e... beginning/muddle/end
Quote: Griff @ January 17 2010, 1:35 PM GMTWhich modern sitcoms don't have a proper storyline with a beginning, middle and end, bushbaby?
You've got me there but I thought John was talking about that.....no storylines, just doing swear words for effect. I don't mind swearing at all BTW, I just find that when used all the time it just has no effect....for me that is
If there were more sitcoms being produced then the real turkeys would not stand out as badly as they do now. There is obviously a generational divide and for people who were brought up on at least 10 sitcoms a week to choose from - then todays output just makes it feel like the good times are over.
Didn't the early episodes of OFAH have the charcters using words like 'Paki' every now and then?
If so, I think John can get off his high horse about what words are acceptable to use in comedy.
He's got a bloody f**king cheek to call people lazy!
What's he done since 1981? erm, let's have a think! Only Fools and Horses, Roger Roger(just Only Fools set in a taxi thingy) Green Green Grass couldn't think of a new idea or characters so used his old ones so people would take interest (lazy) and now still couldn't think of a new idea so re-hashed Only Fools again to give us Rock & Chips.
Lazy b****rd.
I think he's an idiot to come out with those remarks anyway; it does rather sound like sour grapes
Quote: David Carmon @ January 17 2010, 2:02 PM GMTHe's got a bloody f**king cheek to call people lazy!
What's he done since 1981? erm, let's have a think! Only Fools and Horses, Roger Roger(just Only Fools set in a taxi thingy) Green Green Grass couldn't think of a new idea or characters so used his old ones so people would take interest (lazy) and now still couldn't think of a new idea so re-hashed Only Fools again to give us Rock & Chips.
Lazy b****rd.
Just Good Friends, Dear John, Heartburn Hotel - prior to that Citizen Smith but let's forget Sitting Pretty. The man is (or was) an excellent sitcom writer and his opinions are just that, HIS.
But he's called people lazy when he has basically lived off the same same characers and ideas for almost 30 years. It's a good job you can't sue yourself for plagirism (cant spell it an cba looking it up)
The main character in Heartburn Hotel was a bit of a Del Boy to be fair and it was a bit shit.
Quote: David Carmon @ January 17 2010, 2:18 PM GMTBut he's called people lazy when he has basically lived off the same same characers and ideas for almost 30 years. It's a good job you can't sue yourself for plagirism (cant spell it an cba looking it up)
I think it is one aspect of what he said in the so-called interview that is being blown out of all proportion. He thinks it is is lazy when a writer uses a swear word instead of trying to write better dialogue - he could have chosen a better target than Peep Show as an example.
He has tried to move away from OFAH but the audience keep wanting more. Just Good Friends was hugely popular and wildly different from OFAH. I can understand why people are annoyed with what he has said but I think condemning him as a one-trick pony is a bit harsh.
Quote: Griff @ January 17 2010, 1:20 PM GMTHe's made four sweeping statements though:
"The standard of British comedy has gone down."
"Writers make hardly any attempt to tell a story these days."
"Stuff we had in the past, like One Foot In The Grave and other classic comedies, were far better than anything that's around now."
"The quality of writing has just gone downhill."
None of those things are remotely true and as a writer himself he should know better than to say them.
Funnily enough though, if BCG members came on and said exactly the same they would get lots of cries of "hear hear!" Maybe the problem lies with our perception of fuddy-duddy old writers rather than what he has actually said.
And by the way - I think he says in the interview that he *liked* Peep Show, but the swearing got too much for him. That's not an uncommon response from an older viewer is it?
I think the shows he has come up with are good, Green Green Grass would have worked well with different characters though. I think it shows in the supporting cast that he can think of decent characters, he should just have the balls to do something new and original now though.
Just Good Friends isn't something I've seen (Nick Lyndhurst?) but I have heard of it, but it was years ago now, as were Dear John, Heartburn Hotel and Roger Roger. Would be interesting to hypnotise him to forget about Only Fools and it's characters and see what he would come up with with a clear head.
I wouldn't class him as a one trick pony, more a 3 legged one that keeps going round in circles 