The Life And Times Of Vivienne Vyle Page 5

Quote: chipolata @ October 12, 2007, 10:53 AM

Just to reply to your politician point, I don't see them as scum of the earth. They may be ineffective and overly obsessed with style over substance, but they've been made that way by an increasingly dumbed down media. And also, if I had to live next door to a politician, or a working class family, I'd choose the politician any day of the week. With the working class family next door you know you're going to get badly behaved children and a broken bottle in your face if you complain.

Sorry to sound like a bigot on this, but I've actually witnessed some pretty unpleasant behaviour from chavs and the like over the years, and I've completely run out of patience with them.

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Point taken but politicians do far worse that any chav family next door.. they are wasting billions of our hard earned money and killing folks too, some you know about and some you probably don't..!

One thing the politicians aren't dealing with effectively is those unruly families of whom you post. Politicians have tied police hands with unrealistic targets and reporting demands which don't include 'domestics'.. you can sort that out yourselves.. but wait, no you can't as you're the one they'll put in jail if you retalliate (you're the soft target), but the jails are full aren't they.. so.. they'll free up a cell for you by letting a few murderers and rapists out early..

You're quite right to prefer to live next door to a politician though, as you can rest assured that a politician won't have any unruly chav families nearby..

The problems we face today in society are because of politicians total mismanagement of this country over the last 50 years, which is why I consider them worthy of the title, 'Scum of the Earth'.

Sorry for the rant... but IMHO we are all being fooled big-time by our politicians. The media don't care, it's just a money-making battle for profits for them.. they'll print 'owt they can get away with to make a buck and the politicians'll say owt to get re-elected (to the gravy-train..) They deserve each other!

We deserve better but vote Labour or Tory and nothing will change and there is nobody else you can realistically vote for so they have us by the sphericals!!! The yellows would be even worse than the reds and blues, I reckon!

The second episode... has good ideas, great comments, but is also one long pitch black screed with nothing lighter to break it up. And shouty, had to turn down the volume to avoid turning it off altogether. I do like the character portrayals, except for Miranda's irritating producer, but then she's just so irritating.

I see that the co-writer Tanya Byron is actually a clinical psychologist, it takes one to mock one!

Lina

Quote: chipolata @ October 12, 2007, 10:04 AM

The sad truth is in the last fifty years the traditional working class have gone from being salt of the earth to scum of the earth.

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Yes, an interesting phenomenon that. I think it's mostly down to portrayal in the media - and indeed the changing way in which the media influences and affects our lives - being of a largely negative nature. Of course, most stuff within the media is negative; "50 shot dead in Sainsbury's massacre" reads far better and more interestingly than "Robin Harringsworth was promoted today". However, the following types don't help their class(es) any...

Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 12, 2007, 10:14 AM

The working class who have jobs and are paying taxes are at least one up on the dole/sick benefits lot.

I have no problem with genuine claimers btw.. but not people of any 'class' who won't work and who languish on the dole/sick doing whatever they do all day.

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Hear here! It's an interesting socio-web being woven at the moment, IMO. One one hand we've got the spread of the middle-classes at the expense of the working/lower classes, but conversely more people than ever are suffering 'poverty' and the rest. There's also the many different levels on which lower classes are criticised. Crime, dole, lifestyle and such being the main, I suspect.

Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 12, 2007, 10:14 AM

I would include Labour politicians in that list of 'scum of the earth', irrespective of whether they are working class or not.

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Quote: chipolata @ October 12, 2007, 10:53 AM

Just to reply to your politician point, I don't see them as scum of the earth. They may be ineffective and overly obsessed with style over substance, but they've been made that way by an increasingly dumbed down media. And also, if I had to live next door to a politician, or a working class family, I'd choose the politician any day of the week. With the working class family next door you know you're going to get badly behaved children and a broken bottle in your face if you complain.

Sorry to sound like a bigot on this, but I've actually witnessed some pretty unpleasant behaviour from chavs and the like over the years, and I've completely run out of patience with them.

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Couldn't agree with you more on this one.

Quote: chipolata @ October 12, 2007, 10:53 AM

Sorry to sound like a bigot on this, but I've actually witnessed some pretty unpleasant behaviour from chavs and the like over the years, and I've completely run out of patience with them.

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At least you're honest in admitting that hating 'chavs' is classism. Let's have no talk on 'sterilising' the working class though. It's an idea that was very popular in the 1910's but one that I thought had been nicely fazed out/

If C.H.A.V. stands for 'Council House And Violent' then I think it's time Politicians freed up Police to deal effectively with this violence.

If Chav means something else that is NOT violent and anti-social then let's have a better definition of what a chav is.

I'm not talking about a class issue here, I'm talking about unacceptable anti-social behaviour which the police should be dealing with, and they ain't/won't/can't.. and that's 100% down to a political structure that is responsible but isn't personally affected and therefore doesn't care and won't react effectively..

Quote: Aaron @ October 12, 2007, 10:14 AM
I would include Labour politicians in that list of 'scum of the earth', irrespective of whether they are working class or not.
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You're not being party political again are you Aaron, diverting the issues like a true politician!

Tut! Tut!

Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 12, 2007, 11:13 AM

Point taken but politicians do far worse that any chav family next door.. they are wasting billions of our hard earned money

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Yes, very true. But then that's politicians - well, more to the point, the Government - as a whole, or at least collective, rather than individually. Definitely wouldn't live next to Ruth Kelly though. Her voice makes me want to die.

Quote: Frankie Rage @ October 12, 2007, 11:13 AM

The yellows would be even worse than the reds and blues, I reckon!

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I know that they would!

Quote: Cinnamon @ October 12, 2007, 3:53 PM

At least you're honest in admitting that hating 'chavs' is classism.

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How so? Only if one accuses ALL working class persons of also being chavs, or indeed defines chavs as being working class. As I see it, a 'chav' is defined by attitude, style of dress, morals, and to some extent, interests and tastes in music. That the vast majority of chav-types are indeed working class may be true, but is largely inconsequential in the definition of each. To link one so inextricably to the other as you seem to is the real classism, IMO!

Ooh, well said.

I wanted to say all that but I just couldn't be bothered to form sentences.

We deplore unacceptable violence and anti-social behaviour and want it to be 'dealt with', but we won't put enough police on the streets with the appropriate resources and powers to do an effective job.

I think that makes us hypocrites.

A nice point; we often complain about public services but also about how high the tax rates are.

Has anyone seen The Simpsons episode where the citizens enforce a 'bear patrol' - "I'm sick and tired of these incessant bear attacks!" - but then protest about the taxes?

You can make all sorts of statements through the art of comedy, if you consider 'The Simpsons' art; I certainly think it is.

My friend was actually shown that episode in an economics class.

That's brilliant!

We need less stupid regulations in this country. Let teachers teach. Let nurses and doctors heal the sick. Let the police save people from drowning and catch bad guys without having to spend a year filling in shitty forms. This country is a mess. Complete and utter mess, and seems to get worse every year. Deregulation is the answer!

Oh, and cutting out all of that wank will also free up cash for other things. Next we cut 'loans' and honest handouts to the third world.

The firemen need to be able to stand and watch gay orgies too without being fined.. ..and if a public decency crime has been committed, the police need to be able to make arrests without being labelled homophobic!