I can't believe the voters in the UK have let their "justice" system get to such a sad state. Someone shoots an intruder every couple of weeks in my city and they are applauded by their fellow citizens and the police and never come close to seeing the inside of a jail cell.
That part is shit yes, but the American justice system is hardly faultless itself!
If I had to choose, I'd still choose our one. I don't think a robber deserves to die. They deserve a bloody good kicking though, and an extremely long time in prison.
Quote: DaButt @ December 28 2009, 5:53 PM GMTI can't believe the voters in the UK have let their "justice" system get to such a sad state. Someone shoots an intruder every couple of weeks in my city and they are applauded by their fellow citizens and the police and never come close to seeing the inside of a jail cell.
He chased the guy for a considerable distance with a car full of his friends and then beat him with a cricket bat. Up and to the point of permanently crippling him.
Yeh if he'd done that when he was in the house still he'd have got away with it.
To permit that level of violence is to permit anarchy.
Quote: zooo @ December 28 2009, 5:58 PM GMTThey deserve a bloody good kicking though, and an extremely long time in prison.
Your system disagrees and it's pathetic. Our system is certainly f**ked up in some respects, but the trend over recent years has been to give the individual more rights to protect himself/herself instead of taking them away. I can only assume that homeowners weren't thrown in jail for beating up intruders 50 or 100 years ago.
Quote: sootyj @ December 28 2009, 6:21 PM GMTHe chased the guy for a considerable distance with a car full of his friends and then beat him with a cricket bat.
That bit wasn't in the article I linked. If that's the case, I can understand the ruling. Barely.
DaButt the main reason you lock people up for so long is you have hugely powerful prison officer unions.
I do think the average UK citizen deserves considerable more rights to self protection. But making it legal to shoot people for knocking on doors or looking like moose is not the solution.
Tazers maybe?
Quote: sootyj @ December 28 2009, 6:30 PM GMTDaButt the main reason you lock people up for so long is you have hugely powerful prison officer unions.
No, it's because we demand that violent criminals be locked up and kept off the street. Americans will always agree to a tax if it builds more prisons and locks the scum away. Our cops still take the law seriously and our criminals take the cops seriously.
But making it legal to shoot people for knocking on doors or looking like moose is not the solution.
People aren't shot for knocking on doors, they're shot for kicking down doors, assaulting homeowners, etc. But it doesn't happen all that often because home invasions are rather rare, mainly because the burglars know they're likely to face a gun.
Quote: DaButt @ December 28 2009, 6:50 PM GMTthey're likely to face a gun.
Let's not go down the whole guns are good route again. 
I certainly wouldn't be happy to know that everyone on my street had a gun! Anyway, you Americans have this thing about guns that we Brits don't. We are all legally alowed an arsenal of waterbombs though; most burglars know this and so have turned to mugging people in the street instead.
Quote: DaButt @ December 28 2009, 6:50 PM GMTour criminals take the cops seriously.
Homicides per 100,000 citizens
USA: 5.40
Iran: 2.93
UK: 2.03
England & Wales: 1.37
Saudi Arabia: 0.92
I hope China see sense in a few hours. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8432948.stm
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ December 28 2009, 7:02 PM GMTHomicides per 100,000 citizens
USA: 5.40
Iran: 2.93
UK: 2.03
England & Wales: 1.37
Saudi Arabia: 0.92
There's a difference between following the law and "taking cops seriously." UK cops don't seem to get much respect (I've seen it with my own eyes) but even the most contemptuous American criminal knows they aren't to be messed with. Our cops tend to treat every crime/complaint as if it were a serious matter.
If you want to have your eyes opened, check out the U.S. murder statistics by race. The murder rate for white Americans isn't much higher than yours. Remove the people involved with gang activity and drugs and it's very low indeed.
The last I heard, murder was the #1 cause of death for young African-American males in a certain age bracket. There is definitely a racial element to this country's dun crime problem, but the good news is that murder rates have been falling steadily for quite some time.
Another eye opener: Murder rates tend to be higher in cities where handguns are illegal.
Quote: DaButt @ December 28 2009, 7:50 PM GMTIf you want to have your eyes opened, check out the U.S. murder statistics by race. The murder rate for white Americans isn't much higher than yours. Remove the people involved with gang activity and drugs and it's very low indeed.
I lived in SF for a long while. Guns were illegal there, and most of the murder happened across the bridge in Oakland.
Dave Chapelle has quite a good joke about that, but I can't really repeat it here because it uses a bad word. 
Anyway, your argument is flawed by the fact that Americans are Americans are Americans, regardless of skin colour.
I keep hearing stories about things like wives getting shot because they got up in the night to pee. What's that shadow? Must be a burglar, shoot him!
Quote: zooo @ December 28 2009, 8:31 PM GMTWhat's that shadow? Must be a burglar, shoot him!
That's their story
Hehe!
Quote: Matthew Stott @ December 28 2009, 7:01 PM GMTLet's not go down the whole guns are good route again.
I'm pretty sure all of my neighbors have guns and it doesn't bother me the slightest bit. I know they're careful with them, know how to use them properly and aren't violent criminals. Possession of a gun doesn't automatically turn a person into a raving murderer. I rest a bit easier knowing that the old lady sitting next to me at the restaurant is packing heat and I know that my neighbors will come to my assistance if I ever find myself confronted by a burglar.