Quote: Griff @ December 14 2009, 1:54 PM GMTMicheal has noted the lively response on this board:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/2009/12/unintended_consequences_can_of.shtml#P89801077
The link that Micheal posted doesn't work. 
(Well it does take you somewhere near the BCG, but with a 404 error message.)
Quote: Griff @ December 14 2009, 3:25 PM GMTHe's included a rogue full stop at the end. Take that out and it works.
Ahhh...
That's because their software has added the full stop of his sentence to the end of the link. Damn!
... Yeah, what Griff said.
Quote: Tim Walker @ December 13 2009, 8:31 PM GMTHi Badge.
Stealin' me lines! 
I believe everyone is trying to write Peep Show. Even if they're not fans, everyone wants to write a high quality show like that. A show that has been written in blood, sweat and tears, a labour of love and at the end of the day is respected by it's audience and peers.
Most people can't write for shit though. Most people miss out on the irony of it all, most of 'em are just twats.
As an aspiring writer, if you want to slag a show off, by all means go for it. But be sure you're ready to face the consequences, facing your peers, bumping into whoever wrote that show, blah, blah. F**k it.
If you're really cool, you'll not care about any of this, any of this thread, viewers, ratings, mainstream, hardcore, softcore, channels and cock. You'll just get on, achieving your goals, writing your love and realizing what a lucky bastard you are, that you get to write for a career, you get to swan around the BBC and have a latte with Dermot O'Leary.
You have to respect someone like Stewart Lee, I've often seen him quoted as saying, slightly paraphrased: "I don't wanna write a sitcom, I don't wanna do this or that, I just want to do the project I'm working on now and be happy with that".
If Big Top is getting a commission, and you don't think it deserves one. Thern maybe BBC isn't the channel for you. Maybe TV is becoming so watered down, that it's not the place it once was, maybe you need to rethink and write for some other, untouched medium? If not, if you're still determined to write for telly, you need to go into a channel's head of comedy and cum on their face, if you're not willing to do that, then f**k off. This is rich, coming from me, but I suppose this is why I don't have that drive, I'm not sure I'm ready to cum on anyone's face yet, figuratively speaking of course.
F**k everyone else, do you own shit. And get on with it.
*cough*
There was snow in Northwood yesterday.
Is that code for you got laid?
Is it?!
<rues many, many missed opportunities>
Dan
Quote: Leevil @ December 14 2009, 4:02 PM GMTIf Big Top is getting a commission, and you don't think it deserves one. Thern maybe BBC isn't the channel for you.
The BBC is the channel for me, I help to pay for the bloody thing. I'm not sure about the rest of the violent sexual imagery you've used to make your point, but I will tell you this - Big Top is not a good show.
There are two things which can come from this debate - either we're completely ignored and more shows like Big Top will be commissioned or the Beeb sits up and takes notice that we have strong objections to inferior programming.
If the BBC acts positively on our criticisms and institutes some form of quality control, then a better product will arise and we'll all be happy.
Mr. Jacobs blaming 'aspiring comedy writers' for the hackneyed, old fashioned and embarrassingly awful Big Top script is an act of desperation to defend his ill judged commissioning.
I was never a fan of Birds of a Feather and yet, I can understand why a certain demographic might really enjoy it. I could say the same thing about Big Top, but only if it were broadcast on CBBC.
Ironically, I do realise by taking a stand in this way, I am hurting my chances of getting anything I write commissioned by the BBC, but the way they're censoring comedy at the moment, maybe it's not such a bad thing.
It's nice to know that it's us BSGers who are the upstarts and not those pesky Chortle kids.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ December 14 2009, 4:39 PM GMTI was never a fan of Birds of a Feather and yet, I can understand why a certain demographic might really enjoy it. I could say the same thing about Big Top, but only if it were broadcast on CBBC.
I would agree, it certainly seems geared up towards young kids, who I'm sure really like it.
If there is one thing I would love to write is a great BB1 pre watershead family sitcom. But what do they want?
A poster on the Writers Room forum points out that Big Top has the lowest AI (audience appreciation index) score of any programme screened on any TV channel in the past 10 years. Even a BNP broadcast was more popular with viewers.
It's not looking good.
"three writers whose work was so universally rubbished that one abandoned writing altogether, one didn't write for two years and then moved into a different genre, and one took seriously to drink."
Not sure I get this. If your work is universally rubbished, then maybe it is time to stop writing or try a different genre? Or maybe I've misunderstood what he's trying to say.
I agree with Micheal that people overreact when it comes to comedy compared to any other discipline. Whether or not aspiring comedy writers are worse critics than other fans - maybe. But then I guess they reap what they sow if they become successful.
Quote: Griff @ December 14 2009, 4:56 PM GMTWhat he is complaining about is a level of spite and viciousness in some of the criticism from people who as writers themselves ought to perhaps know better. There I am coming to agree with him.
Yeah, the level of bile is a bit weird sometimes. If I don't like a show, I don't really get angry about it, I just don't like it.
From David Mitchell's introduction to the Peep Show script book...
'And I would still argue, as a comedy traditionalist, that the novelty of its filming style is not fundamentally why Peep Show works. It is, at its heart, a classic sitcom, where the 'situation', rather than being an office, a hotel, the Cabinet room or whatever, is the inside of two unhappy heads. Some people, rather oddly, are uncertain of using the term 'sitcom' to describe it: they apologise when they do because they think it's somehow a diminishing or even disparaging term.
In my view, nothing could be further from the truth - sitcoms are the best sort of television programme. There is no documentary, panel show or drama, let alone cooking programme, chat show or reality TV, that people love as much as they love Fawlty Towers, Dads' Army, The Office, The Simpsons, Friends or Seinfeld. People care about those shows which is why, when a new sitcom doesn't work, the press can be so scathing - it matters, it's an offence against something that people feel is important.'
There are as many bad dramas around as bad sitcoms (probably more), but they pass harmlessly beneath the radar as the years go by. Bad sitcoms attract attention because a lot of us (not just snobbish comedy writers) fundamentally know how important they are, how much they mean to us. Laughter produced by characters we like (or hate) is for whatever reasons, very important to our culture. Every great sitcom is a form of satire.
As far as writing goes, there are more important things than writing a f**king sitcom. I'd love to get one to screen, but if it doesn't happen it won't be for the want of trying. And if one of mine ever does and people don't like it then that's my bad luck (or lack of talent). But as a viewer I expect a broadcaster like the BBC to have the ability to set the agenda for sitcom, whether it is on BBC1, BBC2 or elsewhere. And at whatever time of evening the sitcom is broadcast. Hancock's Half Hour, Steptoe & Son, Porridge, OFAH etc... all these were mainstream pre-watershed sitcoms. The BBC used to value sitcom very highly indeed. Now, because it's more difficult to get right than a dancing competition, they seem to view it as a necessary evil: something they have to do for the sake of their credibility.
The worry for me is that certain broadcasters, commissioners and producers misunderstand both the importance of sitcom and therefore tend to be the barriers to great sitcom, rather than the facilitators.
Quote: Griff @ December 14 2009, 5:08 PM GMTHas he never heard of science-fiction conventions?
I'd say sci-fi attracts an incredibly loyal, but niche, fan base. My 62 year old Mum, who's not a comedy obsessive, has huge affection for certain sitcoms. Comedy (and sitcom particularly) is very deeply embedded in this society, with a very diverse, broad fan base.
