British Comedy Guide

Michael Scott and David Brent in The Office

If there's a thread about this already somewhere, my apologies. I couldn't find it on the first two pages, so maybe it's old anyway.

I was thinking about how the British Office (aside from a variety of other reasons) couldn't sustain itself beyond two seasons because David Brent was never allowed to win in an episode or two. It was always about his miserable failure. Whereas, sometimes, in the American version, Michael Scott gets a big client or gets the girl, and then fails horrifically.

I also was thinking about Jim. In the UK version, Jim's your typical never-really-does-anything character which gets really annoying after a while. Whereas Jim USA is more of an everyman than an everyloser.

Do you think these changes were needed to keep the American version going indefinitely? Or do you think Americans just don't like to see such a clear picture of themselves (why The Royle Family and some other reality-like Britcoms aren't as popular)?

Edited by Aaron - capitals.

The UK version is less sugar-coated. It was made in a way to reflect office life. The US version is a sitcom, set in an office. The characters appear to reset at the start of each episode, which is guided through a narrative. Whereas the UK one was more focused on the narrative and developing the down fall of David.

But this was resolved to a happy ending, as Gervais and Merchant knew they weren't bringing him back.

Quote: KeyLimePaige @ December 9 2009, 2:33 AM GMT

If there's a thread about this already somewhere, my apologies. I couldn't find it on the first two pages, so maybe it's old anyway.

I was thinking about how the British Office (aside from a variety of other reasons) couldn't sustain itself beyond two seasons because David Brent was never allowed to win in an episode or two. It was always about his miserable failure. Whereas, sometimes, in the American version, Michael Scott gets a big client or gets the girl, and then fails horrifically.

I also was thinking about Jim. In the UK version, Jim's your typical never-really-does-anything character which gets really annoying after a while. Whereas Jim USA is more of an everyman than an everyloser.

Do you think these changes were needed to keep the American version going indefinitely? Or do you think Americans just don't like to see such a clear picture of themselves (why The Royle Family and some other reality-like Britcoms aren't as popular)?

There's definitely a part of the US version which feels it needs to reflect the aspirational American view of work as a means to success and self-improvement. Although that is implied in Britain, it is bad form to admit it. We're bred to complain about work, even if we enjoy it.

For me, in the UK version, Tim is the character that most men will identify with and Dawn (I presume) most women. You say they never really do anything, but the point is that their lives take place off-screen as it were. Both characters have a bit of growing up to do, but both essentially realise that ultimately their place of work is little more than a anchor of financial and social security. Whereas as David and Gareth (plus Finchy) - live their lives through their work. In this way, Michael and Dwight are similarly somewhat deluded.

The necessity for continuing seasons means that the US version can't pace out its story or character development in the same way as the UK version, of course. It is in some respects a completely different show, but it makes its own way nicely as a very well-written and funny sitcom. It can't have the same relentless failures and disappointments for its characters as that would be a big turn-off over multiple seasons. In the UK version the characters did have victories, but they were smaller and more subtle. Any time Tim and Dawn physically touch each other, for example, was a mini-triumph in their lives. In the US version the characters' lives are (understandably) played out more on the surface - the plot and the dialogue. In the UK version, what Tim and Dawn don't say (and indeed many of the minor characters as well) is as important as what they do say.

I will always prefer the UK version, but that's simply because for me it was more than a sitcom. It said a lot of about life, love, ambition and (especially) what constitutes "failure", which made it quite a deep social drama as well. That's the reason it touched so many people really. Its key audience is probably those in their late 20s, early 30s and upwards - you need to be of an age where you've had to re-adjust your ambitions in life - in order to fully appreciate it, I think. Where you're not quite old enough to (albeit begrudgingly) accept where you've ended-up in life, but at the same time not young enough to easily go back and start all over again.

Quote: Tim Walker @ December 9 2009, 9:05 AM GMT

There's definitely a part of the US version which feels it needs to reflect the aspirational American view of work as a means to success and self-improvement. Although that is implied in Britain, it is bad form to admit it. We're bred to complain about work, even if we enjoy it.

For me, in the UK version, Tim is the character that most men will identify with and Dawn (I presume) most women. You say they never really do anything, but the point is that their lives take place off-screen as it were. Both characters have a bit of growing up to do, but both essentially realise that ultimately their place of work is little more than a anchor of financial and social security. Whereas as David and Gareth (plus Finchy) - live their lives through their work. In this way, Michael and Dwight are similarly somewhat deluded.

The necessity for continuing seasons means that the US version can't pace out its story or character development in the same way as the UK version, of course. It is in some respects a completely different show, but it makes its own way nicely as a very well-written and funny sitcom. It can't have the same relentless failures and disappointments for its characters as that would be a big turn-off over multiple seasons. In the UK version the characters did have victories, but they were smaller and more subtle. Any time Tim and Dawn physically touch each other, for example, was a mini-triumph in their lives. In the US version the characters' lives are (understandably) played out more on the surface - the plot and the dialogue. In the UK version, what Tim and Dawn don't say (and indeed many of the minor characters as well) is as important as what they do say.

I will always prefer the UK version, but that's simply because for me it was more than a sitcom. It said a lot of about life, love, ambition and (especially) what constitutes "failure", which made it quite a deep social drama as well. That's the reason it touched so many people really. Its key audience is probably those in their late 20s, early 30s and upwards - you need to be of an age where you've had to re-adjust your ambitions in life - in order to fully appreciate it, I think. Where you're not quite old enough to accept your lot in life, but at the same time not young enough to easily go back and start all over again.

'That's what she said'.

Quote: jim field @ December 9 2009, 9:20 AM GMT

'That's what she said'.

Why in apostrophes, Jim?

Quote: KeyLimePaige @ December 9 2009, 2:33 AM GMT

I was thinking about how the British Office (aside from a variety of other reasons) couldn't sustain itself beyond two seasons because David Brent was never allowed to win in an episode or two.

Disagree. I think if you look at the first series, David Brent, bumbles along, blithely unaware of how much of an idiot he is. His position at Wernham-Hogg is secure, and in Gareth he has an incredibly loyal minion. It's only in that second series that the cracks begin to show, and he loses the job and office he loves. And then, in the Christmas specials, the show ends on Brent not only finding a hot woman who likes him, but cracking a joke that everybody laughs at. And he tells Finchy to f**k off, having finally realised what a cretin he is. I'd say they were all victories.

For what it's worth, I think Gervais and Merchant are more than talented enough to have got another six episodes out of these characters. And as Peep Show has proved, if you've got good enough writers and actors, then shows needn't fall on their sword the minute they become succesful.

Quote: Tim Walker @ December 9 2009, 9:22 AM GMT

Why in apostrophes, Jim?

Quote marks: single, because they are far more elegant.

Quote: jim field @ December 9 2009, 11:04 AM GMT

Quote marks: single, because they are far more elegant.

And why the quote marks at all? In fact, why the "quote"?

Have you ever seen the show? It's one of Michael's favourite catchphrases. I used quote marks so as to suggest he was speaking it, rather than I, Jim Field, ws saying it.

Quote: jim field @ December 9 2009, 11:30 AM GMT

Have you ever seen the show? It's one of Michael's favourite catchphrases. I used quote marks so as to suggest he was speaking it, rather than I, Jim Field, ws saying it.

Oops, sorry Jim, I have seen the show, but in my ignorance didn't pick up on that. ;)

Quote: Tim Walker @ December 9 2009, 9:05 AM GMT

The necessity for continuing seasons means that the US version can't pace out its story or character development in the same way as the UK version, of course.

'The Office' Ends As Documentary Crew Gets All The Footage It Needs

"Sheffield said that the footage will be drastically cut down and used primarily as B-roll for the planned 90-minute educational film about paper manufacture and production."

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ December 9 2009, 11:39 AM GMT

'The Office' Ends As Documentary Crew Gets All The Footage It Needs

"Sheffield said that the footage will be drastically cut down and used primarily as B-roll for the planned 90-minute educational film about paper manufacture and production."

Laughing out loud

Quote: Tim Walker @ December 9 2009, 9:05 AM GMT

There's definitely a part of the US version which feels it needs to reflect the aspirational American view of work as a means to success and self-improvement. Although that is implied in Britain, it is bad form to admit it. We're bred to complain about work, even if we enjoy it.

For me, in the UK version, Tim is the character that most men will identify with and Dawn (I presume) most women. You say they never really do anything, but the point is that their lives take place off-screen as it were. Both characters have a bit of growing up to do, but both essentially realise that ultimately their place of work is little more than a anchor of financial and social security. Whereas as David and Gareth (plus Finchy) - live their lives through their work. In this way, Michael and Dwight are similarly somewhat deluded.

The necessity for continuing seasons means that the US version can't pace out its story or character development in the same way as the UK version, of course. It is in some respects a completely different show, but it makes its own way nicely as a very well-written and funny sitcom. It can't have the same relentless failures and disappointments for its characters as that would be a big turn-off over multiple seasons. In the UK version the characters did have victories, but they were smaller and more subtle. Any time Tim and Dawn physically touch each other, for example, was a mini-triumph in their lives. In the US version the characters' lives are (understandably) played out more on the surface - the plot and the dialogue. In the UK version, what Tim and Dawn don't say (and indeed many of the minor characters as well) is as important as what they do say.

I will always prefer the UK version, but that's simply because for me it was more than a sitcom. It said a lot of about life, love, ambition and (especially) what constitutes "failure", which made it quite a deep social drama as well. That's the reason it touched so many people really. Its key audience is probably those in their late 20s, early 30s and upwards - you need to be of an age where you've had to re-adjust your ambitions in life - in order to fully appreciate it, I think. Where you're not quite old enough to (albeit begrudgingly) accept where you've ended-up in life, but at the same time not young enough to easily go back and start all over again.

I haven't seen the American show (I was put off by the apparent absence of a Brent analogue), but this sounds like a well considered evaluation of the different needs of the two programmers (plus a neat review of the original show). It would have been all two easy to dismiss the yank show as saccharin advert fodder. I predict your insight and diplomacy will serve you well, Tim when one of your shows eventually gets composted on an American network.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ December 9 2009, 3:26 PM GMT

I predict your insight and diplomacy will serve you well

:D

Why thank you, Godot. Diplomacy (and, dare I say it, tact?) have very much been the key qualities to my glorious success so far. Whistling nnocently

Simple. The americans need extra large fries with everything.

Share this page