I'm not in favor of capital punishment except for in a few cases, such as treason and spying. I'd rather see more life-without-parole sentences and every cell should have a noose for those who want to take the easy way out.
If I had it my way, nobody would be executed without:
1) An admission of guilt.
2) The victim or his representative pulling the trigger/switch.
Quote: DaButt @ November 11 2009, 5:41 PM GMTI'm not in favor of capital punishment except for in a few cases, such as treason and spying. I'd rather see more life-without-parole sentences and every cell should have a noose for those who want to take the easy way out.
If I had it my way, nobody would be executed without:
1) An admission of guilt.
2) The victim or his representative pulling the trigger/switch.
Admission of guilt isn't enough, some are bullied into confession and also the justice system cannot truly be trusted a 100% Remember the poor Polish bloke that got 16 years because the authorities didn't present the proof they had regarding his impotence? That's what can happen when the books are 'balanced' for the sake of shutting the case, whilst some other guilty buggar still roams the streets
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:45 PM GMTWho would the victim be in treason cases? The Queen? Pushing traitors off the hangman's platform like when she launches ships? "I hereby name you... The Late Kim Philby".
Works for me. Or perhaps it could be a task for would-be immigrants.
"Just how badly do you want to be a citizen? Badly enough to kill someone?"
Quote: bushbaby @ November 11 2009, 5:49 PM GMTAdmission of guilt isn't enough, some are bullied into confession and also the justice system cannot truly be trusted a 100%
I'm not talking about the courtroom proceedings. Most condemned men eventually confess, apologize to the victims and ask for forgiveness. I'm a little worried about a guy who proclaims his innocence until the very end, but some (like the recently departed John Muhammad) are simply liars.
I guess I'd accept "caught red-handed" as an alternative to a confession.
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:54 PM GMTIf we had capital punishment he would now be dead. Oh, and he hasn't received a penny of compensation.
I'm not sure I follow the logic of this. If his conviction was overturned on appeal, the law worked (eventually). This would have been the case even if we had a death penalty.
Sucks for him, though. If it was a police stitch-up you'd think he'd get compensation at the very least.
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:54 PM GMTIf we had capital punishment he would now be dead.
Very few cases result in a death sentence and even fewer make it all the way to the grim conclusion. You basically have to kill cops, children or multitudes of people before they even consider it in most cases.
Inmates typically spend 15 years or more on Death Row before their sentences are carried out.
The terrible thing is that these cases, such as the one Griff alludes to, aren't confined to just high profile miscarriages of justice. The number of unsafe convictions in areas of murder, manslaughter, rape and other serious crimes, means that every year there are a good number of (usually) men, who have spent years of their lives in prison as innocent men. Although some may get compensation, they often don't even get a proper apology from the police or CPS.
One way of avoiding some of these "manufactured" cases ever leading to guilty convictions would be to ensure that police officers/detectives aren't (effectively) exempt from investigation into such cases once they retire. This loophole has led to a lot of innocent people spending even longer in prison than they should have, which no punishment for those knowingly helped put them there.
That said, although I'm against capital punishment for a series of reasons, I don't think most of those who advocate it are blood-thirsty vengeance junkies. Some of the "pro" arguments have validity. I certainly don't feel much able to judge the opinions of those, such as relatives of victims, who are personally affected by the debate.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 11 2009, 5:16 PM GMTThe discrepancy is that a standard dose for induction of anaesthesia of thiopentone (in an adult) is 500mg. However, giving a bolus does (as is done in the lethal injection) of 5g will not maintain effective brain cell plasma level for "maintenance" anaesthesia. The drug is used in anaesthesia particularly because of its rapid redistribution to other tissues. The half-life is not an issue in this case in terms of how long it keeps someone "asleep" or, at the minimum, unaware. The drug is rapidly eliminated via redistribution, so that brain cell activity is not suppressed much longer, even with the larger dose.
The difference in euthanasia protocols is the use of a maintenance infusion of thiopentone (though propafol - a longer acting anaesthetics agent - is certainly used in Europe as a more common agent), which will continue maintenance anaesthesia beyond the initial bolus dose.
Maintenance of anaesthesia and lack of awareness is more complex than just what initial agents are given. And a person is not either completely asleep or completely awake, there are at least six different levels of depth of sleep, which are monitored usually by an anaesthetist. The trouble is that once one has administered a bolus dose of pancuronium (a long-acting paralysing agent) it becomes much harder to gauge whether a person is aware "behind the drugs". Potassium chloride in combination with lack of oxygen is not a painless death.
The use of a set protocol, the absence of a anaesthetist/anaesthesiologist and the absence of a maintenance anaesthetic all leads the lethal injection cocktail to be, in my view, far from a certain humane form of execution. As I said, I'd rather be hanged by an experienced hangman myself.
I gave up after 'The'.
Not watched it yet (going to watch it on catchup) So I'll reserve judgement. However I thought it sounded a great premise. It seems that Gary Glitter has become the perfect media focus for Paedophilia. The media have been over sensationalising the crimes of Paedophiles for the past 15 or so years. Although the perportraters are indeed vile in their actions, it seems the press are more interested in selling papers in whipping up public outcry and fear through exageration and hype. As a result we now live in a society where you can hardly take photos of your own child. I myself was asked to stop taking photos of my son ice skating. Ice skating for Christs sake. Wrapped up in 10 layers of clothes, mittens and bobble hats. I've been working in youth groups recently. The kids seem to have one retort these days as an insult to adults. Calling them paedo's.
So I am kind of hoping this programme is going to highlight the media sensationilsm for what it is alongside the recent public surveys on the return of the death penalty. (For information in Feb 2008 99% of SUN readers voted to bring it back...no suprise there...probably 100% now, or 150% to incorporate those who want to hang peditricians)
Chris Morris did this in a comical way on Brass Eye. Hope this is ths same.
I've not read all this thread so (and I fear) my hopes for a programme that highlights these issues in an intelligent way will probably not be realised.
NB: My favourite death penalty was one the Ancient Romans used to dish out to murderers. It was called, Monkey, Snake, Dog Bag. The poor victim was sewn into a sack with said creatures and thrown into the river Tiber. Whooooooa what maniac thought that one up? Imagine having that sentance delivered to you.
Don't know about you but it's the monkey that bothers me.
I would like to see a Richard Blackwood docu-drama that ended in Monkey, Snake, Dog bag !!! I know we've not seen much of him recently on the box, but he still needs to pay for his past crimes in my opinion.
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:54 PM GMTI actually have a family friend who was convicted of murder and later released on appeal after spending a year in prison and probably another year in the cells on remand during the trial and pre-trial. The police in his case made no effort to find out who the guilty party was - they just decided he "fitted the profile" and then lied and lied and lied in court (and persuaded armies of witnesses to do the same) to try and pin the blame on him and secure a conviction. Even the judge announced to the court that he was unhappy with the verdict as he passed the sentence.
If we had capital punishment he would now be dead. Oh, and he hasn't received a penny of compensation.
(It was a fairly well-known case that got a fair bit of national TV and newspaper coverage in the 90s. I'm not going to say more than that.)
Bloody hell!
Wasn't the last ever hanging we had here a miscarriage of justice in the end? I swear I saw a telly programme about it.
I love the suicide booths in Futurama.
Quote: Moonstone @ November 11 2009, 6:19 PM GMTI gave up after 'The'.
So did I. 
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:24 PM GMTDo you know, I think Tim might actually be a proper doctor after all.
Either that, or he's very good at using convincing but entirely made up words.
Quote: Griff @ November 11 2009, 5:30 PM GMTAlso, it might be an idea not to let proper mentals get their hands on guns and bullets in the first place.
I still like the idea that Chris Rock proposed:
Make guns freely available, but licence bullets at €/$/£10,000 each. Then if someone gets shot, you know they deserved it.
Quote: Dkmj @ November 11 2009, 6:21 PM GMTThe media have been over sensationalising the crimes of Paedophiles for the past 15 or so years. Although the perportraters are indeed vile in their actions, it seems the press are more interested in selling papers in whipping up public outcry and fear through exageration and hype. As a result we now live in a society where you can hardly take photos of your own child. I myself was asked to stop taking photos of my son ice skating. Ice skating for Christs sake. Wrapped up in 10 layers of clothes, mittens and bobble hats. I've been working in youth groups recently. The kids seem to have one retort these days as an insult to adults. Calling them paedo's.
Very well said.
Quote: Moonstone @ November 11 2009, 6:27 PM GMTWasn't the last ever hanging we had here a miscarriage of justice in the end? I swear I saw a telly programme about it.
Some of the final ones were highly debatable, notably that of James Hanratty, but I'm not sure that any of the last few have actually been shown to be miscarriages of justice.
Interesting. According to Wikipedia, this was the last person to be sentenced to death in England...
'David Chapman, who was sentenced to hang in November 1965 for the murder of a swimming pool nightwatchman in Scarborough. He was released from prison in 1979 and later died in a car accident.'
Quote: Aaron @ November 11 2009, 6:47 PM GMTSome of the final ones were highly debatable, notably that of James Hanratty, but I'm not sure that any of the last few have actually been shown to be miscarriages of justice.
Hmm, I'm not sure that was him. The bloke I'm thinking of shot a copper or summat.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 11 2009, 6:58 PM GMTInteresting. According to Wikipedia, this was the last person to be sentenced to death in England...
'David Chapman, who was sentenced to hang in November 1965 for the murder of a swimming pool nightwatchman in Scarborough. He was released from prison in 1979 and later died in a car accident.'
No wayz!
