Quote: Moonstone @ November 10 2009, 11:42 PM GMTAt least then you get to jizz before you croak.
As an impotence cure, I think Viagra now has the edge.
Gary Glitter cries foul! Page 6
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 10 2009, 11:44 PM GMTAs an impotence cure, I think Viagra now has the edge.
If only they'd been invented a bit sooner, we'd still have InXS 
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 10 2009, 11:37 PM GMTExcept in that recent case, of course, where they couldn't get a cannula in any vein and had to postpone the execution. I think that actually counts as torture, certainly "cruel and unusual punishment". The problem with the lethal injection cocktail is that the condemned person is probably only put to sleep relatively temporarily. However, when they awake they find they have been paralysed by the muscle relaxant and have to experience slowly asphyxiating to death, with the pain of a massive heart attack as their heart becomes deprived of oxygen. All good fun, I'm sure, if you're into that sort of thing...
I'd take hanging, if I had to choose.
Bloody feck. 
I'm not sure why, but whether the execution is humane or not has never come close to concerning as much as the fact that it still happens in a supposedly civilised nation.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ November 11 2009, 3:41 PM GMTI'm not sure why, but whether the execution is humane or not has never come close to concerning as much as the fact that it still happens in a supposedly civilised nation.
Well, quite.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 10 2009, 11:37 PM GMTThe problem with the lethal injection cocktail is that the condemned person is probably only put to sleep relatively temporarily. However, when they awake they find they have been paralysed by the muscle relaxant and have to experience slowly asphyxiating to death, with the pain of a massive heart attack as their heart becomes deprived of oxygen.
I've read that the drugs used in U.S. executions are the same as used for euthanasia in European countries, except in even greater quantities. So how can one be barbaric and the other humane?
The act is barbaric. The allowance for the taking of one's own life is humane. The drug in question is ... unfortunate. In both cases.
Quote: DaButt @ November 11 2009, 4:39 PM GMTI've read that the drugs used in U.S. executions are the same as used for euthanasia in European countries,
EDIT: Ignore me.
Quote: Aaron @ November 11 2009, 4:41 PM GMTThe act is barbaric. The allowance for the taking of one's own life is humane. The drug in question is ... unfortunate. In both cases.
I was referring to the drugs, not the act. Tim claimed that the patient would only be knocked out momentarily, but Wikipedia says "After a 5 gram dose consciousness will be regained in about 5 to 6 half-lives, which occurs in about 57–69 hours." Tim's a professional knocker-outer, so I was wonder about the discrepancy.
Yes, I know you were. But (although I didn't re-read so could be mistaken) I don't think that the words "barbaric" or "humane" were used in relation to the drug specifically by others, but to the act, with that particular drug merely exaccerbating the negative opinions of the death sentence. And I'd much sooner take Tim's word for it than Wikipedia's, even though he may still be incorrect himself.
The choice of words was mine. I was just trying to figure out how the U.S. executions and European euthanasia processes could be almost identical yet be slammed by an anesthesiologist. (I think that's Tim's title?)
Personally, I'd rather be shot in the head with a few high-powered rifles.
While sleeping.
After a night of drinking great beer.
With a beautiful woman in my arms.
Quote: DaButt @ November 11 2009, 4:51 PM GMTI was referring to the drugs, not the act. Tim claimed that the patient would only be knocked out momentarily, but Wikipedia says "After a 5 gram dose consciousness will be regained in about 5 to 6 half-lives, which occurs in about 57–69 hours." Tim's a professional knocker-outer, so I was wonder about the discrepancy.
The discrepancy is that a standard dose for induction of anaesthesia of thiopentone (in an adult) is 500mg. However, giving a bolus does (as is done in the lethal injection) of 5g will not maintain effective brain cell plasma level for "maintenance" anaesthesia. The drug is used in anaesthesia particularly because of its rapid redistribution to other tissues. The half-life is not an issue in this case in terms of how long it keeps someone "asleep" or, at the minimum, unaware. The drug is rapidly eliminated via redistribution, so that brain cell activity is not suppressed much longer, even with the larger dose.
The difference in euthanasia protocols is the use of a maintenance infusion of thiopentone (though propafol - a longer acting anaesthetics agent - is certainly used in Europe as a more common agent), which will continue maintenance anaesthesia beyond the initial bolus dose.
Maintenance of anaesthesia and lack of awareness is more complex than just what initial agents are given. And a person is not either completely asleep or completely awake, there are at least six different levels of depth of sleep, which are monitored usually by an anaesthetist. The trouble is that once one has administered a bolus dose of pancuronium (a long-acting paralysing agent) it becomes much harder to gauge whether a person is aware "behind the drugs". Potassium chloride in combination with lack of oxygen is not a painless death.
The use of a set protocol, the absence of a anaesthetist/anaesthesiologist and the absence of a maintenance anaesthetic all leads the lethal injection cocktail to be, in my view, far from a certain humane form of execution. As I said, I'd rather be hanged by an experienced hangman myself. 
Quote: DaButt @ November 11 2009, 4:39 PM GMTI've read that the drugs used in U.S. executions are the same as used for euthanasia in European countries, except in even greater quantities. So how can one be barbaric and the other humane?
It's as Tim said earlier, the cocktail is sometimes deliberately 'confused' so the condemened man is given an unbelieveably prolonged and agonising death.
Despite my right wing views on certain topics, I've always been against the death penalty because it's State sanctioned murder, it can happen to an innoncent person and in terms of deterring crime, it has little to no effect.
As for proper mentals who go on a shooting spree and kill loads of innoncent people, most of them end up eating their own bullets anyway. So a death penalty for the mentally unstable is a double waste of time.
The US Government should run public information films, something along the lines of 'Hey, are you angry? Are you a proper mentals? Do you want to kill loads of innocent people with guns and that? Kill yourself instead. Go on, you know you it makes sense.'
One would assume that a single close-range shotgun blast to the head would be pretty quick and painless.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 9 2009, 12:26 PM GMTOne of the papers (guess who?) is also having a go at him for his "scrawled" letters to relatives of dead servicemen. Got to give the guy a break on this one, he's half-blind for God's sake!
View original
Bad hand-writing is one thing, but the spelling is just atrocious.
....................................................................
He should have gone to Specsavers.
About the Glitter prog, I thought the actor portraying Glitter was excellent. I thought too that the prog did make one think. I have always been against the death penalty and was even more convinced that we shouldn't reintroduce capital punishment.
The thought of crowds gathering and cheering at a hanging made me cringe.
Quote: bigfella @ November 10 2009, 5:40 PM GMTNice idea.
We could continue with The garrotting of Graham Norton or The burning of Biggins.
Both of those celebs are truly nice people in real life