Tears of a clown...help wanted please. Page 3

Quote: Marc P @ November 9 2009, 9:33 AM GMT

Dr Tim - If someone is a bit down, a bit depressed,tired and worn down by continual illness, or something of that nature and taking a cocktail of seven or eight different drugs, which can't help the body's natural systems whatever they are - is theres some kind of vitamin injection people take to givethem a natural boost or have I just imagined that?

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Vitamin B6 (or B12?) - don;t ask me how I know.

(alcohol depletes it and it affects energy levels).

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ November 9 2009, 9:37 AM GMT

Vitamin B6 (or B12?) - don;t ask me how I know.

(alcohol depletes it and it affects energy levels).

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B12. I'm actually getting a series of shots for it right now. Also, I have double depression, which sounds a lot like something I just made up.

Yeah I think that's it, but is it an injection and is it 6 or 12? indeed.

Quote: ellipsis @ November 9 2009, 9:43 AM GMT

B12. I'm actually getting a series of shots for it right now. Also, I have double depression, which sounds a lot like something I just made up.

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That's the one.

I hope the depression gets better soon.

Quote: ellipsis @ November 9 2009, 9:43 AM GMT

B12. I'm actually getting a series of shots for it right now. Also, I have double depression, which sounds a lot like something I just made up.

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Cheers and hope it helps!

Quote: Marc P @ November 9 2009, 9:44 AM GMT

Yeah I think that's it, but is it an injection and is it 6 or 12? indeed.

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It is B12. You can get it as a shot, although my dad takes it in pill form (on prescription, not from a healthfood shop.)

And is it on the NHS?

Hhhmmm... Vitamin injections are generally a waste of everybody's time unless there are clear indications they have deficiencies. The causes of vitamin deficiencies are quite simple - 1) diseases which affect vitamin production/usage, 2) diseases/disorders which prevent absorption of vitamins from the gut 3) conditions affecting production of vitamins (e.g. lack of sunlight --> reduced vitamin D production --> reduced calcium uptake in the gut, and 4) polypharmacy (multiple prescribed drugs) which can lead to reduced production or vitamins...

The commonest form of injected vitamin is B12 (often together with folate/ferritin), used in diseases/conditions related to anaemias, where part of the problem becomes blood cell production due to insufficient uptake/use of vitamin B12.

Most other vitamins will be perfectly well absorbed by even a relatively healthy gut and so supplements are not usually necessary. The evidence for taking high dose vitamin C/E to help boost a person's immune system is hazy at best. Injection forms of these vitamins wouldn't be particularly useful (again) unless they had a gut disorder or were on certain meds which might be limiting GI absorption.

On the other hand, multi-vitamins tablets are unlikely to ever cause any harm. Some people swear by taking high dose (1000mg per day) vitamin C when they are feeling "run down", sometimes combined with vitamin E (which is related to the immune system)...

A persons immune system will generally be less "virile" as they age, but it will also be affected (to varying degrees) by chronic diseases/conditions which affect their everyday well-being. Most medications prescribed on a long-term basis shouldn't have a huge effect on the immune system. However, when a patient is on eight regular medications a set of blood tests at regular intervals is reasonably indicated to monitor the effects of the meds (and the diseases) on a person's blood count. A simple "full blood count" will usually identify any significant problems with a person's immune system.

I would also suggest that if someone if on multiple medications, the prescription should be reviewed fairly regularly by their GP/specialist with a view to making sure that they are all absolutely necessary. The other concern should always be is that one is not prescribing a new medication to treat a potential side-effect of another.

Mine was for a ridiculously low amount that appeared in my bloodwork a while ago, not sure if it'd do any good to just wander around poking random people. Weird thing is it's in meat and I do love my cows.

Of course, if you want a "natural" high, there is always selfharm. Not that I'd really recommend it.

Cheers Tim.

That's some great information there Dr. Tim!

I take Omega 3 Fish oil and B Vitamins for well being. Not sure they work, but I take them anyway

I've taken vitamin supplements in the past myself, so I'm certainly not one to judge. It's just that most people under 70, with a healthy diet, a functioning small intestine, adequate exposure to sunlight and no diseases/conditions which should affect vitamin/iron/folate/ferritin levels probably don't need them.

If you can afford them, of course, then there's no real harm in taking them, so long as they're not being used as a substitute for a healthy diet.

What about over seventy?

Quote: ellipsis @ November 9 2009, 9:51 AM GMT

Of course, if you want a "natural" high, there is always selfharm. Not that I'd really recommend it.

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Intensive exercise is a better choice. Although you need to feel motivated enough to do it.

Quote: Marc P @ November 9 2009, 10:02 AM GMT

What about over seventy?

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It's free on the NHS.

Quote: Marc P @ November 9 2009, 10:02 AM GMT

What about over seventy?

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It varies from person to person. Generally a person's normal level of function, their degree of everyday well-being, their diet and any chronic diseases they may have are a good indicator of how "strong" their immune system is likely to be.

Statistically, all over-70s become less able to fight infection due to the body's general deterioration in all organs/areas - including their bone marrow (where white blood cells are made) and their liver (where vitamins are processed). So, in a very general sense, even a very fit over-70 person is more vulnerable to infection that a comparably fit 50 or 60 year old. However, with people living longer the sands are shifting somewhat and something like bacterial pneumonia - which used to have a very high mortality in over-70s (even when I was a med student it was sometimes referred to as "the old man's friend" because it was generally a fairly swift and peaceful exit from life) - is less likely to kill thesedays - and that's even disregarding the efficacy of modern antibiotics.

Every individual, of course, is an n=1 study, so statistics only try to show the general trend. It's significant to note that so-called "geriatric" specialist physicians (or "care of the elderly" as it is now known) used to take patients aged 70 or over under their care. Thesedays, many places class "geriatric" patients as over 80/85. So 80/85 is the new 70 possibly?

EDIT: And getting back to Rube's original post, I would question whether comedians with mental health problems would have necessarily developed them if they hadn't become comedians. Though assuming they have some kind of genetic predisposition to developing depression/bipolar/addiction etc, I suppose the environment of working in "funny" may cause them more severely develop their condition. I would say that insecurity is a big part of all comedians' make-up. If people like Frankie Howerd used to suffer from depression then, in a way, it was understandable, as he had so many troughs in his career they were bound to take their toll.