Taking DNA... Page 2

Quote: Mick Dolan @ September 29, 2007, 12:45 AM

I agree with the "left-wing maniacs" on this one: privacy is overrated. Why do people think that the government and police force are going to somehow use this information to undermine their entire existence? I have sympathy for the gov't and the police because they seem to be in a catch-22. If they take a proactive stance to security, they're called 'Big Brother' or 'fascist', but if they take a reactive stance, then people criticize them for not having instituted preventative measures.

People seem to forget that in 1984, it wasn't simply that the gov't had bits of information about its citizens, it was a full on police state with no habeas corpus.

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Yeah, but you live in China, which is as good as 1984 anyway.

Quote: Mark @ September 28, 2007, 10:41 PM

I'm with ajp29 on this one, I don't see what the problem is with the government holding a DNA sample of everyone? If you don't commit any crimes then you surely have nothing to fear?

chipolata, if I was wrongly arrested as your friend's father was, I'd happily give a DNA sample as that would be a quick way of proving innocence.

I also have no problems with carrying an ID card (although they can get stuffed if I've got to pay for it!)

Am I missing part of the argument?

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one part of the argument you are missing is that whilst in the current poliical climate a database of everyone's DNA has, arguably, many advantages, such as supposedly idenifying 'potential' criminals at crime scenes etc, imagine what a party like say the National Socialist German Workers Party (AKA The Nazi Party) would do with the infomation. and lets not forget they were democratically elected. OK it's swings and roundabouts but I'm not sure if the advantages of a DNA database outweigh the potential misuse from future administrations.

Quote: Bad dog @ September 29, 2007, 8:56 AM

Yes, if you want to know what all this REALLY means, follow Aaron's link. If you are one of the docile sheep who will go along with everything, well, have a nice day.

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I have read the link - in quite a lot of detail. But as i said before my only reservation is the misuse of information! Docile sheep or not...i think both have valid arguments.

I'm less concerned about future administrations than the present one, but yes, precisely.

This thread is confusing me - surely those anti ID cards are on the left wing while those of us pro (well, lets say not against) them are right wing?

I've just read that anti-ID card website; it hasn't changed my opinion. If they want me to carry one I'll happily do so (but I'm not paying for it!).

The site makes a good point about the possible ineffectiveness of the cards ("oh no, you can't blow yourself up - you don't have ID!") but it doesn't make me fear for my privacy in any way. Like Ellie says, so what if the government knows everything about me? If fact I'd rather they did know all - they might be a bit more efficient then and stop sending me the same tax forms again and again!

I guess it depends whether you've got anything to hide. I do but the bodies are so deep they'll never be able to put them on my record!

They carry ID cards in many European countries and they don't complain.

Quote: Wildjesusfishkid @ September 29, 2007, 11:24 AM

They carry ID cards in many European countries and they don't complain.

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Yeah, but that's not much of an argument now, is it?

Quote: Mark @ September 29, 2007, 11:22 AM

The site makes a good point about the possible ineffectiveness of the cards ("oh no, you can't blow yourself up - you don't have ID!") but it doesn't make me fear for my privacy in any way. Like Ellie says, so what if the government knows everything about me? If fact I'd rather they did know all - they might be a bit more efficient then and stop sending me the same tax forms again and again!

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Extemely unlikely. I'm highly dubious as to who would actually have access to the information on the database, how it would be used, and how often it would get stolen. And that's without considering the cost and the quite frankly f**king stupid idea that it would stop terrorism.

As long as the science is 100% and it can be implemented without massive cock-ups I wouldn't have a problem with it. So what if your DNA is on record somewhere. My bank has all my financial data, my hospital has my medical records (they even have my bone marrow stored for me). If the government wanted to 'do something' to me I think they could do it anyway. Hopefully the justice system would protect me.....(hmmm, that's going to get quoted!!)

I think catching murderers/rapists before they attack again far outweighs any of the arguments I've heard against it so far. And insulting people by calling them sheep is a bit of a weak response.

I'm against ID cards because I already have a passport and I don't want to pay for it another card, but bring on the minority report!!!!

Quote: ShoePie @ September 29, 2007, 11:45 AM

I think catching murderers/rapists before they attack again far outweighs any of the arguments I've heard against it so far.

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But do you honestly believe that it would be used for that? And used successfully? Not a chance. The whole system is so incompetent and overly regulated from up-on-high that nothing will ever get done. There needs to be a complete change in the makeup, work ethics and structure of the system before anything can really get done.

Quote: Aaron @ September 29, 2007, 11:54 AM

But do you honestly believe that it would be used for that? And used successfully? Not a chance. The whole system is so incompetent and overly regulated from up-on-high that nothing will ever get done. There needs to be a complete change in the makeup, work ethics and structure of the system before anything can really get done.

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I don't think they'd manage to pre-empt but it would help bring people to justice quickly and that's why I'm all for a national DNA bank.

If everyone's DNA was recorded in a database it would make heinous crimes like rape near on impossible to get away with - the police wouldn't need to waste time or money trying to work out who did it, they'd just need to find where they're hiding. That speed and cost saving and increased prosecution rate has to be something we all want?

Exactly!

My friends dad had DNA taken too, because he was speeding at 34mph in a 30mph zone. ¬¬

The problem with me is, I'd actually quite like to live in the film Demolition Man.
Life was so simple there! Before Denis Leary messed it up.

Quote: Mark @ September 29, 2007, 12:08 PM

I don't think they'd manage to pre-empt but it would help bring people to justice quickly and that's why I'm all for a national DNA bank.

If everyone's DNA was recorded in a database it would make heinous crimes like rape near on impossible to get away with - the police wouldn't need to waste time or money trying to work out who did it, they'd just need to find where they're hiding. That speed and cost saving and increased prosecution rate has to be something we all want?

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But you're working on the assumption that the database would have integrity, be complete, and accurate.

Quote: Aaron @ September 29, 2007, 12:26 PM

But you're working on the assumption that the database would have integrity, be complete, and accurate.

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And you're working on the assumption it wont be