Getting rid of Merton might be what some want but some of us remember when Izzard took over and it was a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. Anyway, it could be worse. They could have Jimmy Carr on there every week.
Have I Got News For You - Series 38 (Autumn 2009) Page 4
Quote: Bert Bastard @ November 5 2009, 1:33 AM GMTGetting rid of Merton might be what some want but some of us remember when Izzard took over and it was a disaster. Be careful what you wish for. Anyway, it could be worse. They could have Jimmy Carr on there every week.
Good point. And instead of guest hosts who are sometimes great, sometimes car-crash, but not usually dull (and even if they are there's a new one next week), we could have a permanent deadly dull host. Hmmmmm.
I think any decline in Paul Merton on the show can be directly linked with the departure of Angus. Don't think Paul realised it much at the time (or since) but he really needed something to "push against" in terms of authority. The dynamic with Ian is not the same, they're effectively on the same side. When Angus was there, the class dynamic (contrived though it was) worked brilliantly: Ian (Upper Class) Paul (Working Class), Angus (Middle Class).
The reason the show worked so well pre-Angus' departure was that there was almost a developing sitcom narrative to the "characters". It is lessened when we just have Paul versus Ian.
I haven't seen many episodes of HIGNFY, but of those I've seen, I enjoy the Angus episodes more.
Quote: AndreaLynne @ November 5 2009, 1:44 AM GMTI haven't seen many episodes of HIGNFY, but of those I've seen, I enjoy the Angus episodes more.
No-one will ever be as good a host as he was. That to me is the point.
Quote: Badge @ November 5 2009, 1:40 AM GMTGood point. And instead of guest hosts who are sometimes great, sometimes car-crash, but not usually dull (and even if they are there's a new one next week), we could have a permanent deadly dull host. Hmmmmm.
I quite like the guest hosts. It keeps it relatively fresh. If I was a betting man (only had one bet in my life, won £43, quit whilst I was ahead) they would appoint someone like Alexander Armstong as a permanent host cos he's basically another Deayton.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 1:42 AM GMTI think any decline in Paul Merton on the show can be directly linked with the departure of Angus. Don't think Paul realised it much at the time (or since) but he really needed something to "push against" in terms of authority. The dynamic with Ian is not the same, they're effectively on the same side. When Angus was there, the class dynamic (contrived though it was) worked brilliantly: Ian (Upper Class) Paul (Working Class), Angus (Middle Class).
The reason the show worked so well pre-Angus' departure was that there was almost a developing sitcom narrative to the "characters". It is lessened when we just have Paul versus Ian.
Good point. You need conflict like in a good sitcom. Maybe we all underestimated that aspect to it.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 1:50 AM GMTNo-one will ever be as good a host as he was. That to me is the point.
But do you agree or disagree with the idea that once he became part of the news himself with his drugs and TV's Mr Sex stuff, it weakened his authority as arch observer and therefore he couldn't be the host any more?
I dunno, every new series thread for HIGNFY always seems to end up with "Deayton or not?" and "Merton is shit".
Quote: Badge @ November 5 2009, 1:55 AM GMTBut do you agree or disagree with the idea that once he became part of the news himself with his drugs and TV's Mr Sex stuff, it weakened his authority as arch observer and therefore he couldn't be the host any more?
It's a "satirical" news quiz, Angus wasn't the host of Newsnight. And this (rather pompous) defence of the reason to get rid of him (pushed by Ian and Paul as well) is slightly hypocritical when you consider some of the people whom they've invited on to guest host. People who not only sometimes have famous partisan or non-objective positions, but have also set the news agenda through their own fame. They could have given the show a year's break and when it returned the Daily Mail etc would have moved on to something else. Ian, Paul and the show's producers seemed to forget that actually a lot of us really loved Angus on the show and he was as much a reason we watched it as Paul or Ian.
Quote: Badge @ November 5 2009, 1:55 AM GMTI dunno, every new series thread for HIGNFY always seems to end up with "Deayton or not?" and "Merton is shit".
Paul Merton is a massively talented comic, but his hit rate has steadily declined. There will be one moment per year when he conjures up something genuinely brilliant. Trouble is, he used to do that a few times per series.
Ian too seems to have to affect moral outrage as the years go on, rather than genuinely feel it. I am a huge fan of Private Eye and Ian Hislop's editorship, but he has become very establishment, whether or not he wants to be. Also, now when he puts his "serious hat" on to explain the news to the audience it often feels rather patronising, as though in this day and age we don't have more opportunity than ever to know about the people and events behind the headlines.
For example, his big show of talking about the Ivory Coast toxic waste dumping story injunction. Well, that had become a well-publicised story, yet Ian talked about it as though it was his scoop. (I realise that not every BBC One viewer will know about such stories, but occasionally Ian seems a little too worthy for his own good. And not as funny as he used to be, sorry to say.)
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 2:02 AM GMTIt's a "satirical" news quiz, Angus wasn't the host of Newsnight. And this (rather pompous) defence of the reason to get rid of him (pushed by Ian and Paul as well) is slightly hypocritical when you consider some of the people whom they've invited on to guest host. People who not only sometimes have famous partisan or non-objective positions, but have also set the news agenda through their own fame. They could have given the show a year's break and when it returned the Daily Mail etc would have moved on to something else. Ian, Paul and the show's producers seemed to forget that actually a lot of us really loved Angus on the show and he was as much a reason we watched it as Paul or Ian.
I'm going to take that as a "disagree", if that's okay with you.
I'm an "agree", by the way, but hopefully not too pompous and hypocritical with it. 
Quote: Badge @ November 5 2009, 2:05 AM GMTI'm an "agree", by the way, but hopefully not too pompous and hypocritical with it.
I was aiming that comment really at Ian, Paul and the show's producers (plus a good few journalists who were overjoyed at putting the boot into Deayton). Not you, dear Badge.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 2:08 AM GMTI was aiming that comment really at Ian, Paul and the show's producers (plus a good few journalists who were overjoyed at putting the boot into Deayton). Not you, dear Badge.
It's okay Tim, 'cos I am pompous and hypocritical really. 
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 2:02 AM GMTFor example, his big show of talking about the Ivory Coast toxic waste dumping story injunction. Well, that had become a well-publicised story, yet Ian talked about it as though it was his scoop.
It was the first I'd heard of it 
(though apparently there'd been an injunction or summat, so that's probably why I missed it)
I think the reason that every series the "Angus" issue comes up, is because the end of the show's hey-day coincided with him getting the boot. The golden years ended around the same period because the quality of the guests was in decline. Politicians, especially, had a naivety about going on the show in the 90s that they haven't had in the noughties (thanks Alistair Campbell!). No-one whom it might be really interesting to see on the show is going to put themselves in that position anymore. HIGNFY was, to some degree, a victim of its own success.
It's still a favourite show of mine and pretty much all the other "topical" comedy shows don't live up to the hype, as far as I'm concerned. But the success of the show, both as interesting satire and as great comedy, peaked some years ago.
Quote: Badge @ November 5 2009, 1:00 AM GMTAs it is, fair enough. Though you don't have to watch, and please don't ruin the enjoyment of those of us who still like to.
So I'm not allowed to critcise televisions shows now? Jeez, what's the point of living? 
Like a violent spouse, I only hit Have I Got News For You because I care. Even after what seems like an eternity, it is still the best news based comedy panel quiz on the telly.
Thanks to the quite frankly turgid competition, HIGNFY can rest on it's laurels, safe in the knowledge that there are a lot of talentless producers working in the industry who can't come up with anything better. Unfortunately, this translates as a repetitive viewing experience for the audience, is detrimental to the brand and eventually becomes a law of diminishing returns.
The old magic is gone and the show needs to be re-vamped if it ever wants to reach those halycon days of old.
In my humble opinion obviously.
This is an interesting page of debate.
I miss Angus, but it is also quite nice to have the 'freshness' of guest presenters. As has been said above though, it has resulted in a change of dynamic which has probably diluted some of the comedy... not just because of the class/character stuff, but because the guest presenter is now more of a focus of the show - i.e. we spend less time paying attention to the topics and gags, and more time looking/listening to how the presenter is doing (even if it is only subconsciously).
One thing to point out - I don't think Angus would have been presenting the show now, even if the scandal hadn't happened. A) He was costing too much - by 2002 they were having to pay him nearly £2000 per minute he was on screen. B) Ian and Paul really didn't like him, and their relationship was apparently close to breaking anyway when the scandal came out.
Anyway, we may not have seen the last of Angus on HIGNFY. There are rumours he is in talks to present the show's 20th birthday edition next September. How true or not that rumour is I don't know - personally I doubt it'll happen, as it will highlight what we've been missing (or otherwise) since his departure.
Quote: Tim Walker @ November 5 2009, 2:02 AM GMTThe Ivory Coast toxic waste dumping story injunction. Well, that had become a well-publicised story, yet Ian talked about it as though it was his scoop.
To be fair, that actually was his scoop. Private Eye were the first publication to break the embargo and thus open the floodgates to allow others to follow.
Quote: Mark @ November 5 2009, 9:00 PM GMTTo be fair, that actually was his scoop. Private Eye were the first publication to break the embargo and thus open the floodgates to allow others to follow.
Private Eye were first to break the embargo on reporting both the injunction about reporting the parliamentary question referred to and the details of the imposition of the injunction. However, by the time HIGNFY was recorded the story had been covered on Newsnight. Perhaps it wasn't the best example, of course, but Ian has on other occasions rather gone on about the minutiae of stories that are more commonly known about. I did't think we needed a lot of his detailed explanation of the MP's expenses issues at a time when there was a huge appetite and knowledge in the country about the story. If he made more "funnies" to compensate for the rather schoolmaster-ly lecturing than it perhaps wouldn't be an issue.
Ian was very good on Question Time though.