British Comedy Guide

Let's All Mock The Hippy Page 8

Quote: Tim Walker @ November 1 2009, 8:25 PM BST

I'd prefer that both of us were treated and in the order of our clinical need, personally. I've not led by any means a blameless life in the past, and the positive contribution I have made to society has also brought me financial and other benefits already. I'd be shocked for any doctor presented with me and "the criminal" to prioritise treatment based on anything other than clinical need. It goes against the fundamental principles of being a doctor, it's not just my personal opinion. (And what if your hypothetical concerned two doctors both with head injuries - both otherwise "equal", other than one is a pioneering heart surgeon and the other a pioneering psychiatrist - what value systems do you have to bring to the table to prioritise between those two?)

How many honest, decent people die on hospital waiting lists every year? Why does it take so long for an ambulance to arrive? Why are there shortages of vital medicines and equipment? Why is there a 4 hour wait at every A&E?

Because the system has been overloaded and those who contribute nothing are treated in the exact same manner as those who have given everything.

Before you quote medical ethics, have a good look around you at the decisions made by practicing medical personnel on a daily basis. Because of a lack of resources, the fundamental priniciples have become a thing of the past.

Who should get the expensive new hip? Your mother? Or someone fresh off a plane from God knows where?

These are tough questions and they require tough answers. Many seem to disagree with the my solutions, please feel free to venture forth your own answers.

And who makes the choices?

People die it happens. People are horribly injured it also happens.

But we can't make the choices you suggest without fundamentally losing all the good things you seek to preserve.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ November 1 2009, 8:36 PM BST

Who should get the expensive new hip? Your mother? Or someone fresh off a plane from God knows where?

You can say this is anecdotal, but when I've practised anaesthetics in South London, Surrey or Somerset (and elsewhere), I've probably anaesthetised an average of 200 people per year for hip/knee replacement surgery. Of those, I would honestly estimate that at least 95% were white people with "British" surnames whose 1st language was obviously English. People whom I can quite confidently surmise had probably lived all their lives in this country. Now either I have the most bizarrely ethnically/racially/socially biased orthopaedic anaesthetic experience in the country, or...

Quote: Tim Walker @ November 1 2009, 8:25 PM BST

(And what if your hypothetical concerned two doctors both with head injuries - both otherwise "equal", other than one is a pioneering heart surgeon and the other a pioneering psychiatrist - what value systems do you have to bring to the table to prioritise between those two?)

Damn it, if only there were a penis doctor, there could've been a great heads or tails joke in that.

RC, under your system, how would your mother fare?

You mentioned she'd done a lot of charity work. Presumably, reallocating valuable resources to those unworthy of them, such as the poor.

Would she get brownie points when it came time for her hip replacement, or would her selfless generosity count against her?

Quote: Moonstone @ November 1 2009, 8:44 PM BST

Damn it, if only there were a penis doctor, there could've been a great heads or tails joke in that.

A penis doctor would be a urologist. So you'd really have to work it with a brain surgeon and a urologist. ;)

Quote: Tim Walker @ November 1 2009, 8:25 PM BST

And what if your hypothetical concerned two doctors both with head injuries - both otherwise "equal", other than one is a pioneering heart surgeon and the other a pioneering psychiatrist - what value systems do you have to bring to the table to prioritise between those two?

Maybe the psychiatrist was not the best choice of example...

Quote: sootyj @ November 1 2009, 8:39 PM BST

But we can't make the choices you suggest without fundamentally losing all the good things you seek to preserve.

I'm still waiting to hear a solution from any other forum member. I know that it is a very British thing to piss, moan and whine and not do anything about a problem except ascerting blame - usually to the wrong cause.

So to paraphrase Big Talk: 'Come on you eggheads! Sort this problem out!'

Quote: Timbo @ November 1 2009, 8:47 PM BST

Maybe the psychiatrist was not the best choice of example...

:D

It was a very deliberate choice. Because it kind of relates to the overall argument. Mental illness is as debilitating and socially/economically costly to this country (and to "normal" people's families) as heart disease (probably moreso in fact), yet it is considered 'unsexy' and is therefore chronically underfunded in comparison.

Quote: Tim Walker @ November 1 2009, 8:46 PM BST

A penis doctor would be a urologist. So you'd really have to work it with a brain surgeon and a urologist. ;)

But don't urologists see women too? And the psychiatrist would've been fine. Ohh, if ifs and buts...*sighs*

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ November 1 2009, 8:48 PM BST

So to paraphrase Big Talk: 'Come on you eggheads! Sort this problem out!'

:D

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ November 1 2009, 8:45 PM BST

RC, under your system, how would your mother fare?

You mentioned she'd done a lot of charity work. Presumably, reallocating valuable resources to those unworthy of them, such as the poor.

Would she get brownie points when it came time for her hip replacement, or would her selfless generosity count against her?

She would of course get the new hip. She has contributed more to society then she has taken away.

It really is that simple, the math used is plus and minus, try giving it a go. ;)

Quote: Moonstone @ November 1 2009, 8:50 PM BST

And the psychiatrist would've been fine. Ohh, if ifs and buts...*sighs*

Oh yeah, it would... My brain hurts! :(

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ November 1 2009, 8:51 PM BST

the math used

>_<

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ November 1 2009, 8:51 PM BST

She would of course get the new hip. She has contributed more to society then she has taken away.

It really is that simple, the math used is plus and minus, try giving it a go. ;)

So is it not like conkers? If your mum has, through her helping of the poor, enabled thousands of horrible chavs to bring the society to the brink of collapse, or something, does she not have their scores count against her?

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