Quote: sootyj @ October 31 2009, 12:59 PM BSTAnd why do you abbreviate your name?
Tim Walker-Texas-Ranger.
It's Tim Walker-Texas-Homecare actually. 
(Until 1999, when the Texas Homecare bit was quietly dropped.)
Nick Griffin on Question Time Page 43
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 30 2009, 9:16 AM BSTThis itself is causing a lot of anger, especially with right wing patriot groups including BNP and UKIP.
Woooah woah woah, hold up a minute, don't put the BNP anywhere UKIP. Completely different animals.
Quote: sootyj @ October 30 2009, 2:56 PM BSTAt the rate you are narrowing things down it looks like your white nation will soon be. You, the missus and the dog.
You're also the fella who keeps coming back to skin colour. Which in this day and age just isn't that relevant too me.
The Birtish Empire was built very much on the backs of an Indian beuracratic class and may reflect their values more than this noble white nation you belong to.
Also where does this leave poor English racists like Kilroy Silk whoa re orange?
Interesting that in one post you're urging people to 'open up' the racism/immigration debate, and in the next nit-picking to avoid that very thing.
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 2:00 PM BSTWoooah woah woah, hold up a minute, don't put the BNP anywhere UKIP. Completely different animals.
Well yes and no, UKIP is both right wing and patriotic, so much so that the BNP stole a lot of their policies so they wouldn't be perceived as a single issue radical party.
I do find it quite remarkable that the more liberal members of this forum are arguing in favour of an Islamic faith / culture / ideology that wishes to see them wiped out.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 31 2009, 2:19 PM BSTI do find it quite remarkable that the more liberal members of this forum are arguing in favour of an Islamic faith / culture / ideology that wishes to see them wiped out.
Not sure anyone is arguing for that. In fact I don't think there is actually much disagreement among the posters regarding Islamic fundamentalists. I find aspects of the teachings of most religions disturbing, and while I do not accept that Islam is any more beyond redemption than any other religion, I would agree that the brand of Islam currently preached is alien to our values. Allowing an entrenched Moslem community to establish itself in the United Kingdom was self-evidently a mistake. But it is there, and the issue is how we deal with that reality. Engagement, which is not the same as compromise, seems rather more constructive than demonisation. Accusing anyone who tries to see both sides of the argument of being an apologist is no more constructive than branding anyone who tries to discuss immigration a racist.
Timbo, that was beautifully put and I accept your points readily.
The next question is: What do we do about it? Does anyone have a solution to the immigration problem or do we just blame previous political doctrine ad infinitum?
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 31 2009, 1:01 PM BSTIt's Tim Walker-Texas-Homecare actually.
(Until 1999, when the Texas Homecare bit was quietly dropped.)
It would have to be Tim Walker-Homebase now.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ October 30 2009, 4:09 PM BSTBut thanks to Labour, they've let the corporations and the banks run rampant, which is why we have such a huge influx of immigrants - cheap labour so rich people can get richer.
No no. The problem is that the immigration has let the corporations bring in cheap immigrants. The big companies could have employed people from here. (Although they'd have been more likely to run into the destructive troublemaking trade unions, admittedly.)
I think the whole Griffin/Question Time thing has done us all a favour. The more arseholes of his ilk we see on telly the more boring they become. Who gives a f**k about where people come from, so long as they don't take advantage and join in with stuff.
I bet Nick Griffin would be hating the west if he had been born in Iraq or the like.
He's just a hateful little man, f**k 'im.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 30 2009, 4:23 PM BSTPersonally I think that is a very valid point, and have heard this argument being used in the USA to describe how some Cities/urban districts have become little more than breeding grounds for 'coloured' crime and violence, and holding pens for black/Latino populated prisons. We even have black guys from places like LA and Detroit over here now advising British ministers on how to help stop black urban districts in Britain ending up the same way. It is a subject that should be debated and questions should be asked about WHO is to blame and how to stop it ruining life for everyone else. To avoid mentioning it, for fear of seeming blameful or racist or non PC is totally wrong, and even harmful, because who can deny that this sort of thing is happening in some communities? Gun crime in Britain used to be extremely rare, now it is the worst in Western Europe - it is very worrying. We have to look into WHY this has happened and who is doing it in order to prevent it reaching US levels and destroying our country, which was once a safe place to live in.
What really annoys me is the claims of police racism because black people get stopped and searched more often than whites, etc. If the black/ethnic communities weren't the ones committing the vast majority of violent crimes, stabbings, shootings, terrorist bombings... Well, you get the picture.
It's only because white people are getting away with it. 
Quote: sootyj @ October 30 2009, 4:40 PM BSTWell plenty of Christians don't believe into render unto Ceasar and all that. Religions as a rule say gnerally silly things, the question is who listens. And in this country across all faiths increasingly less and less.
Perhaps somebody has already made this point, but that's the problem; the very culture of Islam is so intrinsincally linked and intertwined with the religion that the belief system has been absorbed into it. Even if Muslims become as apathetic to their mosques as most of the population are to their churches, those ... things won't disappear.
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 2:02 PM BSTWoooah woah woah, hold up a minute, don't put the BNP anywhere UKIP. Completely different animals.
Interesting that in one post you're urging people to 'open up' the racism/immigration debate, and in the next nit-picking to avoid that very thing.
I'd like to open it on "Big open debate street," not "White culture is ace and imperilled avenue," or "Any discussion is racism boulevard."
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 3:08 PM BSTWhat really annoys me is the claims of police racism because black people get stopped and searched more often than whites, etc. If the black/ethnic communities weren't the ones committing the vast majority of violent crimes, stabbings, shootings, terrorist bombings... Well, you get the picture.
Agreed but white bankers and accountants should be willing to be stopped and searched by the SFO more often.
But agreed as most of the victims of these criminals are BME or Asian themselves, not stopping and searching is racist. Infact refusing to deal with some one's offending behaviour is in my view highly racist.
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 3:21 PM BSTPerhaps somebody has already made this point, but that's the problem; the very culture of Islam is so intrinsincally linked and intertwined with the religion that the belief system has been absorbed into it. Even if Muslims become as apathetic to their mosques as most of the population are to their churches, those ... things won't disappear.
That is a view held by some Muslims. We so thoroughly ignore the liberal/traditional Muslims who have no interest in Caliphate. But like me and the fans of the Daily Mail, want more respect, less drunkeness and an end to poisonous credit deals.
Quote: sootyj @ October 30 2009, 8:41 PM BSTWhich is actually what the Church tried for till only 2 centuries ago. The Church up until the 18th century was a horribly brutal violent institution.
sooty, this is a fair point, but is along the lines of most things you post in these debates; factually correct but actually pretty irrelevant. Just because that's how the Christian church(es) were until relatively recently doesn't give the Muslims licence to behave like that now. Unless you'd like to take us back 200-odd years...?
Quote: Curt @ October 30 2009, 10:18 PM BSTI'm actually on side with Sootyj and Moonstone but I just had to bring this up somewhere
Unsurprising. Anti-whitey!
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 30 2009, 11:40 PM BSTThe First Commandment is also quite telling. The creator of the universe wants us to know that our first priority is not having any other gods.
But the Commandments were to the followers of the faith and their own conduct. Not to others, or any kind of instruction as to how to treat others. (Of course some may choose to interpret it as the latter.)
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 4:16 PM BSTsooty, this is a fair point, but is along the lines of most things you post in these debates; factually correct but actually pretty irrelevant. Just because that's how the Christian church(es) were until relatively recently doesn't give the Muslims licence to behave like that now. Unless you'd like to take us back 200-odd years...?
Well my point is that people can change and cultures can progress (in the case of many African churches regress). And in this day and age can move on surprisingly quickly; Morroco, Egypt and Indonesia are all examples of Islamic states that are by no means Caliphates (and actually anger Islamic fundamentalists). I just think we can trust SOME Muslims to make the good choices Christian made in the 1700s-1800s this century.
Islam is going through a clash of ideas like many belief systems. And I think the key to winning the war on terror is coming down on the right side and backing it. Not by pushing all Muslims into one box marked scary.
We also have to remember that places like Sudan and Jordan suffer from tribal primitivisim far more profoundly than Islamic fundamentalism.
Quote: Aaron @ October 31 2009, 4:21 PM BSTBut the Commandments were to the followers of the faith and their own conduct. Not to others, or any kind of instruction as to how to treat others. (Of course some may choose to interpret it as the latter.)
A very accurate theological point. If I can add this can be seen as the God of "monotheism" as opposed to pagan gods of the time.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 30 2009, 11:47 PM BSTIt is the 21st century and these people are still cutting each other's heads off for the sake of a twisted religion and to control shit-hole bits of f**king desert.
