Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2009, 1:57 AM BSTAgnosticism? No.
For f**k's sake.
It's the f**king idiots who have a religion who have to prove their point, surely.
There have been plenty pogroms of the religious by atheists. Personally I distrust anyone who is certain about anything.
Quote: Timbo @ October 31 2009, 1:49 AM BSTAs opposed to Christian Rwanda or atheist Cambodia or... I could go on. And on.
Didn't really answer my question, but let me put it another way... Why is there such little natural justice enshrined in Islamic Law? Leave aside the basic wickedness that tribe does to tribe and man does to man, why in the 21st century are sickening punishments (sanctioned by religious courts) so incredibly commonplace and accepted as just in Muslim culture?
Why do Islamic extremists, even those living in a secular European society, call for "beheading" for those who are perceived to have insulted the Prophet, rather than for an imprisonment or a simple apology? Why is there such a lust for violence?
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 31 2009, 2:00 AM BSTWhy does anybody need religion?
Bank Holidays.
Quote: Timbo @ October 31 2009, 2:00 AM BSTThere have been plenty pogroms of the religious by atheists. Personally I distrust anyone who is certain about anything.
Atheism is not a belief.
I don't believe that you have two cocks. Does that mean that I'm certain you don't have two cocks? No.
You may have two cocks, and I'm happy for you to go shouting in the streets about how your left cock is bigger than your right cock.
But don't expect me to even consider for a second that you're telling the truth unless I see both cocks at the same time.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 31 2009, 2:07 AM BSTDidn't really answer my question, but let me put it another way... Why is there such little natural justice enshrined in Islamic Law? Leave aside the basic wickedness that tribe does to tribe and man does to man, why in the 21st century are sickening punishments (sanctioned by religious courts) so incredibly commonplace and accepted as just in Muslim culture?
Why do Islamic extremists, even those living in a secular European society, call for "beheading" for those who are perceived to have insulted the Prophet, rather than for an imprisonment or a simple apology? Why is there such a lust for violence?
Perhaps as an historian I tend to think more in four dimensions, but I really don't see it as intrinsically more inherent in Islam than in other ideologies.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2009, 2:09 AM BSTAtheism is not a belief.
I don't believe that you have two cocks. Does that mean that I'm certain you don't have two cocks? No.
You may have two cocks, and I'm happy for you to go shouting in the streets about how your left cock is bigger than your right cock.
But don't expect me to even consider for a second that you're telling the truth unless I see both cocks at the same time.
Atheism is a belief. You believe there is no God; you have not empirically proved it. Atheism is also a tenet of certain belief systems, i.e. Communism.
And there is a man in Spain who has two cocks. I would post a picture, but I suspect Aaron would object.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 31 2009, 2:07 AM BSTBank Holidays.
Banks aren't a religion . . unless you count the worship of Mammon !
Quote: Timbo @ October 31 2009, 2:15 AM BSTAtheism is a belief. You believe there is no God; you have not empirically proved it. Atheism is also a tenet of certain belief systems, i.e. Communism.
I also believe that you are not made entirely of congealed semen. Show me the scientific evidence that I am correct or incorrect. Until you do, I shall be an a-Timbo-semen-constructivist.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2009, 2:09 AM BSTAtheism is not a belief.
I don't believe that you have two cocks. Does that mean that I'm certain you don't have two cocks? No.
You may have two cocks, and I'm happy for you to go shouting in the streets about how your left cock is bigger than your right cock.
But don't expect me to even consider for a second that you're telling the truth unless I see both cocks at the same time.
I think that the development of religious belief was the price human beings paid when evolution gave us self-awareness. The gift of self-awareness, that very few animals have, gives us an awareness of our unique view of the world and lends itself to the idea that we have greater importance. Self-awareness leads to ego, which leads to super-ego, which leads (some of) us to require a purpose to our existence. A God or a spirit is more of a comforting explanation for our "self" than any (however complete or incomplete) scientific one.
Self-awareness can lead us to the view that "I live in my universe. You too live in my universe. If I say that God created my universe, then you too were created by God. Why? Because you live in my universe".
(I'm not smoking anything dodgy, btw. I think I'm probably just having a minor brain haemorrhage or something. 
)
Quote: Timbo @ October 31 2009, 2:15 AM BSTAnd there is a man in Spain who has two cocks. I would post a picture, but I suspect Aaron would object.
Yep, he rebuffed Aaron's advances. 
Religion = hope of an afterlife to those that can't/won't believe that this is it.
I stand to be corrected, but name me one (mainstream) religion that doesn't have an afterlife at its core.
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 31 2009, 2:29 AM BSTI stand to be corrected, but name me one (mainstream) religion that doesn't have an afterlife at its core.
Microsoft.
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 31 2009, 2:16 AM BSTBanks aren't a religion . . unless you count the worship of Mammon !
Well round my house, Boxing Day is all about the worship of Gammon! Thank you, sir, very kind...! 
(Will I get away with that? )
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 31 2009, 2:27 AM BSTSelf-awareness leads to ego, which leads to super-ego, which leads (some of) us to require a purpose to our existence.
I've heard something like this before. Oh yeah, Yoda.
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
Quote: Oldrocker @ October 31 2009, 2:29 AM BSTI stand to be corrected, but name me one (mainstream) religion that doesn't have an afterlife at its core.
Judaism, I think.
Quote: The Giggle-o @ October 31 2009, 2:34 AM BSTI've heard something like this before. Oh yeah, Yoda.
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
Taking the piss you are.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 31 2009, 2:37 AM BSTTaking the piss you are.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 31 2009, 2:36 AM BSTJudaism, I think.
Not really to do with the afterlife thing, but one of my favourite ever Woody Allen lines comes from his film Crimes and Misdemeanours, when he has rejected Judaism and is trying out different religions. Having tried to be a Catholic, he gives up, saying 'Catholicism to me was "die now, pay later"'. 
My favourite afterlife line though, is that of Arthur Dent when he and the gang think they have died, but have actually been transported to the Restaurant At The End Of The Universe. Noting the plush, five-star surroundings, he says "It's not really the afterlife, more sort of an 'après vie'."
Well round my house, Boxing Day is all about the worship of Gammon!
Sooo conventional! Turkey (and pork for Nana who doesn't like the brown bits of the turkey) and on Boxing Day a nice gammon joint with a few chips or a nice jacket potato (but with cold turkey and pork as well for those who want it).
Brisk walk after lunch anyone? If we're walking the dogs over the top field we'll need our Wellies!
Sorry, I digress . . .