Neatly encapsulates why last night was a load of bollox. Also no one mentioned Jack Straw's extremely dubious views on Jews/Israel or DaveyC's Holocaust denying East European chums.
Nick Griffin on Question Time Page 27
When he was laughing he reminded me of Tony Blackburn for some reason.
I've just watched it now and I did feel the show's organisers seemed to use it as a vehicle to attack Griffin and his party, whatever it was he said.
So BBC for me don't come out this well, maybe Bumblebee as well for almost forgetting the purpose of his own show. It wasn't entirely fair on Griffin and actually I thought he handled himself with a lot of dignity.
With that in mind I thought it did Griffen and the BNP no harm at all.
For every so called vile belief he had, and awkward refusal of some allegations, he came out with massively important points, such as the British people were never asked by any Govnt if they wanted an inflood of immigrants in their own country. Griffin believes just as many other MPs do that if we were given referenda on immigration then such policies would never have taken place. I think he's right. He was also right to state that being English has somehow become a thing to be ashamed of, instead of proud of. He was shaky on his past Hitler comments but I thought he did well under the very hostile, barely democratic circumstances. I do not feel the audience was tuly represtative of British public opinion either, I believe a lot of them wanted to be there just to attack Griffin. If they'd picked an audience randomly from the phone book this would have given a fairer reflection of what the gen public think, IMO.
Straw on the other hand looked like exactly what he is, a weak kneed ultra liberal socialist who does not share or even understand the non liberal views of his electorate, including some of the ethnic minorities. He first looked like a stunned rabbit then a man in denial when attacked first by a black audience member, then an Asian MP about the damage his Govt's open door immigration policy has done to this smallish island!! I found his reaction incredible given how much the point about Britain being radically different now has been aired in the press. So our Govt defo came out worse than the BNP in this.
I wish the government had the balls to say they didn't ask for an influx of immigrants. But now they're here they haven't the foggiest idea what to do and what they have tried has been an abject failure.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 4:30 PM BSTDaveyC's Holocaust denying East European chums.
How exactly is that relevant to ... anything at all? Being sat alongside people IN THE EU who share your views OF THE EU is what is important IN THE EU. The other parties' opinions on the holocaust, on gyspies, and on whatever else they're criticised for this week, is pathetic, irrelevant point-scoring by the other political parties. Yawn. Stick to real issues.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 4:30 PM BSThttp://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sholto-byrnes-a-shame-that-outrage-and-not-debate-confronted-griffin-1808107.html
Neatly encapsulates why last night was a load of bollox. Also no one mentioned Jack Straw's extremely dubious views on Jews/Israel or DaveyC's Holocaust denying East European chums.
On the subject os Straw the same paper carries a nicely vitriolic article by Matthew Norman:
I mean you can't have a go at one guy for Holocaust denial. Whilst being all chummy with political parties who say the same thing.
And as one of the big 7 countries in the EU the approval of our probable future PM is a very big deal.
Anti racist at home, racist abroad is the very worst sort of hypocrasy.
Quote: Timbo @ October 23 2009, 5:16 PM BSTOn the subject os Straw the same paper carries a nicely vitriolic article by Matthew Norman:
Damn! That was the story I meant to post up.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 4:30 PM BSThttp://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/sholto-byrnes-a-shame-that-outrage-and-not-debate-confronted-griffin-1808107.html
Perfect. Good read, thanks sooty.
When NewLab wheel out that compromised, amoral, suit full of shit as their moral champion. Then I dunno maybe I'll have to vote Independent.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 5:18 PM BSTI mean you can't have a go at one guy for Holocaust denial. Whilst being all chummy with political parties who say the same thing.
And as one of the big 7 countries in the EU the approval of our probable future PM is a very big deal.
Anti racist at home, racist abroad is the very worst sort of hypocrasy.
You're still confusing two very different topics. The Conservatives have made it very clear that they don't agree with those parties' views of things like the holocaust. But they're not sitting with them on a panel discussing the holocaust, so that's completely and utterly f**king irrelevant. They're seated with them because they have the closest resembling thoughts/ideas OF THE EU. I have been virtually sitting alongside Tim Walker through much of the analysis of Griffin and of last night's show. But I certainly don't share his opinion of Two Pints, for example. And I can still virtually sit alongside him on this matter because our views of said programme are just as irrelevant to dissecting the BNP as views of something that happened 70 years ago are to the future of the European Union.
Quote: Timbo @ October 23 2009, 5:16 PM BSTOn the subject os Straw the same paper carries a nicely vitriolic article by Matthew Norman:
Not vitriolic enough.
Quote: Aaron @ October 23 2009, 5:40 PM BSTYou're still confusing two very different topics. The Conservatives have made it very clear that they don't agree with those parties' views of things like the holocaust.
Aaron there's zero confusion. One of the most powerful thing any politician can give is respectability. Separating these parties euro-scepticisim from their dubious policies on race etc. Is like trying to separate out your piss from a 100 man urinal.
And even if it was true that David really disaproves of them, he is being very, very quiet about it.
And ignorance of history is the best way of repeating it.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 6:18 PM BSTAnd even if it was true that David really disaproves of them, he is being very, very quiet about it.
He probably doesn't want to draw attention to the matter. I wouldn't.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 4:59 PM BSTI wish the government had the balls to say they didn't ask for an influx of immigrants. But now they're here they haven't the foggiest idea what to do and what they have tried has been an abject failure.
That sums up our govt very well. They jumped right under the duvet with the EU to show them how Euro/every nation-friendly GB would be post tory govt (pure toadying) and when they finally, finally get the message from their own British public that they don't like it, they just sort of shut up and look sheepish like a naughty little boy who's been caught playing with his willy in public. Straw was pathetic beyond belief when asked those questions about 'Is it this govt's fault that the BNP is on the rise.' Blair sacked Straw for being so weak under pressure and generally a bit wooly, now Brown not only reappoints him to the cabinet but makes the graver error of letting the sap be the govt's spokesman on what was always going to be a very hot debate. Straw's ineptitude now reflects on a weaker by the hour Gordon Brown, probably the most out of touch PM since Heath. While Harman is at home probably laughing her head off because not only was she saved from the invidious job of defending their mad immigration policies but she saw two of her biggest rivals for party leadership take a huge step back in the race. That was a PR disaster for Brown. I fancy a new round of Brown baiting by his growing band of labour MP detractors coming quite soon. I thought Cameron played a bit of a masterstroke by putting that young Asian MP on, she made Straw look like a weak and bumbling fool.
New Labour have taken to calling anyone who's papers run out illegal and then locking them up. Net result 10s of millions spent on incarcerating people who probably would have earned their citizenship. And the agencies like locking up families, because people with kids are more likely to cooperate.
Just another part of how the current immigration system punishes good will and cooperation.
Quote: sootyj @ October 23 2009, 7:25 PM BST
And the agencies like locking up families, because people with kids are more likely to cooperate.
Exactly, Sootyj. Whereas aggressive single males can bully (sometimes just by their physical appearance) weak subservient PC Home Office employees. Oh, I 'temped' at HM Immigration for two years. My eyes were well and truly opened!