Establishing

Hi probably a pretty daft question coming up but I am new to writting long form ideas. I'm curretnly having a go at writing an hour long drama pilot for the first time. I have some key locations that are used a lot and some that are used only once. Do you think that Establishing shots are needed each time that you go to a new location, and if they are do you put it in your script as a new scene each time there is one? Just wondering as I have put establishing shots in at each new location and put them in as separate scenes. I know that hour long scripts are supposed to be between 60-70 pages long, but I'm worried that I will go over this as around 10 pages may be made up of establishing shots.

...Or am I worrying over nothing?

Quote: MrKirk @ October 19 2009, 9:02 PM BST

...Or am I worrying over nothing?

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I have no particular experience on these matters, but I've never read a non-shooting script which bothers with establishing shots.

Don't put in any camera/shot directions unless they are absolutely essential to make sense of the script. Listing "establishing shots" are a waste of space, especially as you're the writer, not the director. And use as few stage directions in general as possible, for that matter.

Well.........

Use them if they are telling part of the story in a film script. You do stick them in a TV script. In a film sometimes you need to cut away and show time passing etc. So in a film someone is found with a knife in them, cut to establishing shot of a hospital, cut to surgeon talking to someone else but not about coffee. Everything should be telling part of the story is the way to think of it.

Quote: Tim Walker @ October 19 2009, 9:31 PM BST

Don't put in any camera/shot directions unless they are absolutely essential to make sense of the script. Listing "establishing shots" are a waste of space, especially as you're the writer, not the director. And use as few stage directions in general as possible, for that matter.

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Not sure I totally agree there. Sometimes an establishing shot will help the story along and so it's your job as the writer to include that, if you think it's enhancing the plot in some way. Directors aren't writers and so won't necessarily see that.

Agreed that too much cam and stage direction will piss people off though. But also there's nothing more boring than reading a script which has almost no direction in there, because often it's the direction that paints the picture in the reader's mind.

Bottom line is, if you think it's helping the story along, stick it in. Matron.

Quote: Marc P @ October 19 2009, 9:41 PM BST

Well.........

Use them if they are telling part of the story in a film script. You do stick them in a TV script.

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Soz Mr P, didn't read your post before I posted.

Quote: Lee Henman @ October 19 2009, 10:07 PM BST

Bottom line is, if you think it's helping the story along, stick it in. Matron.

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Which is pretty much what I was trying to allude to (just not very well). It's more about the language used to me. 'Establishing shot' is a directorial/photography term, in my view, the kind of language I tend to avoid using if I can help it. ('Close-up' is far more easy to justify using in the script as it is often vital in terms of telling a story.)

Oh, I don't know! My brain hurts from editing a new script anyhow...

What Marc & Lee said.

Quote: Marc P @ October 19 2009, 9:41 PM BST

Use them if they are telling part of the story in a film script. You do stick them in a TV script. In a film sometimes you need to cut away and show time passing etc. So in a film someone is found with a knife in them, cut to establishing shot of a hospital, cut to surgeon talking to someone else but not about coffee. Everything should be telling part of the story is the way to think of it.

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Interesting.

Does "INT. HOSPITAL WARD. DAY" not just deal with all of that, from the spec screenwriter's point of view?

Mr Kirk, keep things simple: don't clutter your script with multiple establishing shots - you're a writer; not a director.

Any (key) location work can be included in a brief synopsis.

Ten pages of establishing shots?
Whew!
Use as little as possible.
If the scene heading doesn't give you enough info - add a line.
Maybe two.
Anymore and you'll slow the read right up.
Producers etc don't like that.

Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 19 2009, 10:50 PM BST

Interesting.

Does "INT. HOSPITAL WARD. DAY" not just deal with all of that, from the spec screenwriter's point of view?

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No.

If you want to see it on the screen. You write it in the script.

If you're a first time writer, you shouldn't be too extravagant location wise, anyway.

Location work is expensive: try to keep costs down as much as you can.

Quote: don rushmore @ October 20 2009, 5:53 PM BST

If you're a first time writer, you shouldn't be too extravagant location wise, anyway.

Location work is expensive: try to keep costs down as much as you can.

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Don't get too hung up on it either though. It's a script not a play. If you are a first time writer concentrate on telling the story as well as possible. I know what you mean about a first time writer writing a blockbuster type movie and getting carried away, and you shouldn't have establishing shots left right and centre. But it's the story that sells. And of course it depends what kind of script you are writing - film/television and what your objectives are for it.

For me, there's a little ambiguity in the original question. When the poster speaks of establishing shots, he needs to be more specific. An establishing shot, could be - for example - the exterior of a shop or (more expensively) a horizon over the Isle of Skye.

If he has included lots of locational work - all across the British Isles, no producer is likely to go anywhere near it.

Of course, he may not have done this. But if he has: a rethink may be in order.

Quote: don rushmore @ October 20 2009, 6:12 PM BST

For me, there's a little ambiguity in the original question. When the poster speaks of establishing shots, he needs to be more specific. An establishing shot, could be - for example - the exterior of a shop or (more expensively) a horizon over the Isle of Skye.

If he has included lots of locational work - all across the British Isles, no producer is likely to go anywhere near it.

Of course, he may not have done this. But if he has: a rethink may be in order.

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Good point. It is sometimes necessary to put in an establishing shot, like the exterior of a hospital, for example, to avoid a jump cut and show that time has passed. Of course you can put action in it, like an ambulance arriving with blues and twos etc.

I watched Coppola's Youth Without Youth recently and nearly every scene begun with a big establishing shot of a sunrise. It was a very boring film.