Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 2:33 AM BSTIraq is mostly quiet these days. I have friends serving over there and they're bored to tears. Afghanistan is where things are really heating up.
Indeed. It sounds like a real shit-hole for the troops over there. We lose one a week, if not more. And the US lost 8 soldiers in a single incident the other day. 
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 2:54 AM BSTIndeed. It sounds like a real shit-hole for the troops over there. We lose at least one a week, if not more. And the US lost 8 soldiers in a single incident the other day.
It's make-or-break time in Afghanistan. Either NATO brings in enough troops to win the fight or we withdraw in humiliation. Obama stands zero chance of reelection if we run away, but he's taking his sweet time deciding whether to fulfill his campaign pledge to concentrate on "the good war" in Afghanistan.
Well, we had one of your commanders in London a few days back saying exactly that. I hope the message also reached back home. Our recently retired ex-head of the army has come under (metaphorical) fire today when it's revealed he's going to take on a role with the Conservative opposition.
Now Labour are implying that all his genuinely impartial, if outspoken, criticisms of the government over Afghanistan (whilst he was in the job) were politically motivated. They were, of course, trying to slur him even before he made a political move. Put simply, he'd asked for an immediate 2000 extra troops to be deployed and was denied on financial grounds. He'd also made public the concerns about equipment and other resources which stem from the guys at the sharp end.
Historically Labour has never had much genuine sympathy for our armed forces and they have tried to fight Afghanistan on the cheap every step of the way.
I really don't see other NATO countries committing further troops in frontline roles. The public opinion over here is pretty much that we don't believe the claims that Britain is safer by securing Afghanistan because a) all the terrorists can just train and deploy from Pakistan and b) fighting a never-ending battle there distracts time, money and energy from securing borders etc.
The public will always support the troops, but we've already had enough of the body-bags and don't see the Afghanistan as winnable or worth it.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 3:10 AM BSTWell, we had one of your commanders in London a few days back saying exactly that. I hope the message also reached back home.
General Petraeus is the highly respected architect of the surge in Iraq. He's so well-like that there are rumors that the White House is worried about his political ambitions. It's no secret that our military continually polls much, much higher in trustworthiness than our elected officials in Washington. There are also rumors that the military leadership in Afghanistan will resign if their request for additional troops is not fulfilled.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 3:10 AM BSTHistorically Labour has never had much genuine sympathy for our armed forces and they have tried to fight Afghanistan on the cheap every step of the way.
I heartily implore everyone in the UK to read Michael Yon's dispatches from Afghanistan. He's the best reporter in country (and a former Special Forces soldier) and his criticism of the UK's handling of the war got him removed from his embed slot with British troops, much to their disappointment. He has planety of harsh words for the American government and is very blunt in stating that we will lose the war by 2012 if things don't change. He was right when he said that we were losing in Iraq, he correctly called the remarkable turnabout in Iraq when everyone had written it off and I trust his judgment completely.
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/michael-s-dispatches/
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 3:10 AM BSTI really don't see other NATO countries committing further troops in frontline roles.
The Canadians, Dutch, Australians and Lithuanians spring to mind. Yon has a lot of great things to say about them.
Human lives are precious, but sometimes blood must be shed to protect us all. Afghanistan is a worthy fight by every meaning of the word.
Quote: Kevin Murphy @ October 8 2009, 2:26 AM BSTI have a new favourite Australian.
Hi Kenneth.
Christ on a brick truck, no! I only consider myself Australian when watching the cricket or football, and when entering the country (as it's nice not to need a visa). And I shouldn't have said I was mixed race in case you inferred I was part black (my family background is European and Asian) as race is irrelevant (or should be). And meanwhile the Australian media is having a field day over the Jackson Jive thing. Lots of outrage and widespread public indifference.
Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 2:53 AM BSTHopefully they can pull together and avoid slaughtering each other once the coalition troops leave in 2011.
Hopefully.
I always find the fear of swear words completely illogical. However viewing violence and sexual scenes (not nudity) do effect brains and I can understand the need and call for regulation, although as someone else pointed out parents do have a responsibility to supervise their children's viewing.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 8 2009, 9:47 AM BSTI always find the fear of swear words completely illogical.
Yet it's the negative responses which give the swear words their power. If these words weren't in any way offensive, they would cease to be sweary. If people get more and more outraged by the words, then those words get increasingly powerful.
I never found any of the Little Britain blackface skits particularly racist - although this one was very near-the-knuckle and would NEVER have been aired if it wasn't Lucas and Walliams IMO. "I is from de ghetto"?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTaX-mJHrnk
Quote: DaButt @ October 8 2009, 3:29 AM BSTIt's no secret that our military continually polls much, much higher in trustworthiness than our elected officials in Washington.
And if any were elected, they'd soon be polling at the same levels as politicians because they'd have to do the same things normal politicians do to survive. Actually being in government soon takes the shine off people.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 8 2009, 9:47 AM BSTI always find the fear of swear words completely illogical.
Not sure anybody fears them. But having them rammed down your throat constantly can be coarsening.
Quote: chipolata @ October 8 2009, 10:17 AM BSTAnd if any were elected, they'd soon be polling at the same levels as politicians because they'd have to do the same things normal politicians do to survive. Actually being in government soon takes the shine off people.
But having them rammed down your throat constantly can be coarsening.
Maybe rammed in your ears? In what way coarsening.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 8 2009, 9:47 AM BSTI always find the fear of swear words completely illogical.
The words themselves are harmless and fun. It's only when they are delivered in an angry, menacing tone (often as a precursor to violence) that they are scary. Well, this can be funny, providing you're not on the receiving end of the abuse.
Another thing that's not usually talked about is swearing on the radio. There doesn't seem to be the same watershed as TV. I've heard loads of "bastards" and "shits" etc on Radio 4 dramas during the day. How does that work then?
Quote: Lee Henman @ October 8 2009, 11:21 AM BSTAnother thing that's not usually talked about is swearing on the radio. There doesn't seem to be the same watershed as TV. I've heard loads of "bastards" and "shits" etc on Radio 4 dramas during the day. How does that work then?
Radio 4 audiences are perhaps a little less likely to rush to judgement and spend their time as professional offendees? I suppose context is considered more important than absolute hard-and-fast rules on Radio 4. 
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 11:24 AM BSTRadio 4 audiences are perhaps a little less likely to rush to judgement and spend their time as professional offendees? I suppose context is considered more important than absolute hard-and-fast rules on Radio 4.
And the word c**t's been used on Radio 4's Front Row, which goes out at 7:15pm. Although Mark Lawson was hosting.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 8 2009, 11:24 AM BSTRadio 4 audiences are perhaps a little less likely to rush to judgement and spend their time as professional offendees? I suppose context is considered more important than absolute hard-and-fast rules on Radio 4.
One of the times it happened I was in the car with my 7-year-old son. I think I was just scanning the channels when a hysterical woman screamed out "Oh piss off you bastard!" or something like that on a radio 4 play. To be honest I was pretty furious. I consciously try to ensure my son isn't exposed to bad language by me or anybody else around him and it annoyed me that some poxy Radio 4 play had done it in my own car. They'd never get away with on TV at that time of the day. I don't really see the difference.
However, after the watershed as far as I'm concerned all bets are off. Kids should be in bed by then, and if you're offended as an adult by sexual swearwords then God help you. And God help your partner in bed. "I say dear, your vulva / penis is looking jolly tempting this evening. Could we possibly indulge in a spot of coitus?"