Quote: sootyj @ October 3 2009, 11:10 PM BSTVaguely sinister, shades of The Handmaid's Tale.
I know it's a mental new-fangled idea that mothers might be the best people to raise their own children!
So is Labour really washed out? Page 5
To some people yes.
And I was referring to your organisations policies.
Quote: sootyj @ October 3 2009, 11:17 PM BSTAnd I was referring to your organisations policies.
They're really not weird or unusual, just the sort of thing parents of young children worry about and want to see changed.
Howz about some parents? Not all parents.
Quote: sootyj @ October 3 2009, 11:24 PM BSTHowz about some parents? Not all parents.
I think most mothers want to be able to afford to spend more time with their children, or at least to have a choice of good quality childcare if they don't - i.e one constant carer, be it child-minder or grandparent, rather than group care outside of a home-setting with a high turnover of different carers. I'm not talking about three year olds spending a morning at a playgroup, but babies being placed in nurseries from 8am to 6pm. Mothers I know who have done that with their first child haven't repeated it with their subsequent babies.
I don't like the goverment's assumption that I would be better off sitting in a office writing about dresses, while strangers care for my toddler in a room with thirty others.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 3 2009, 11:14 PM BSTI know it's a mental new-fangled idea that mothers might be the best people to raise their own children!
Don't forget the fathers.
Quote: Jack Massey @ October 3 2009, 8:29 PM BSTI hate the CSOs. I just think they are a bit Gestapo-esque and I've spoken to real Police Officers and they equally can't stand them.
However, Labour and the next election. I hope they do win it as I don't like Tories
What's your beef, boooyyyyyy?
Quote: Jack Massey @ October 3 2009, 8:29 PM BSTI can't stand the MP (Phil Woolas
Quote: Jack Massey @ October 3 2009, 8:29 PM BSTAnyway, now I've had my rant, yes as a whole I do want Labour to win the election, but I will be voting for the Liberal Democrats.
Blimey.
Quote: sootyj @ October 3 2009, 11:10 PM BSTVaguely sinister, shades of The Handmaid's Tale.
You encourage a large state, but call mothers wanting to be able to raise their own children "sinister"? Seriously? I think you must have a very different definition of the word 'sinister' to everyone else on the planet.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 3 2009, 11:39 PM BSTI think most mothers want to be able to afford to spend more time with their children, or at least to have a choice of good quality childcare if they don't - i.e one constant carer, be it child-minder or grandparent, rather than group care outside of a home-setting with a high turnover of different carers. I'm not talking about three year olds spending a morning at a playgroup, but babies being placed in nurseries from 8am to 6pm. Mothers I know who have done that with their first child haven't repeated it with their subsequent babies.
I don't like the goverment's assumption that I would be better off sitting in a office writing about dresses, while strangers care for my toddler in a room with thirty others.
Oh Dolly, ain't it strange when we agree? 
Quote: Aaron @ October 4 2009, 12:06 AM BSTYou encourage a large state, but call mothers wanting to be able to raise their own children "sinister"? Seriously? I think you must have a very different definition of the word 'sinister' to everyone else on the planet.
Reason why I don't agree with Dolly, Aaron is I agree with you on the state only being a certain size. In this case not offering benefits or tax breaks to promote life style choices.
That is one area I think the current one could decrease.
I do think reasonable childcare should be offered. But paying family members to be carers is the most wrong headed example of big state thinking.
Quote: DaButt @ October 3 2009, 8:01 PM BSTI was thinking more along the lines of a voluntary choice. I know there are plenty of armed response units in the UK, so why would the average cop walking a beat be upset about carrying a gun himself?
Those that I've spoken to don't want to have any extra weaponry, and feel that they could cope adequately with what they've got. They could use more help though. Not many of them want to volunteer to use arms, either, and the armed-policeman I knew recounted tales of boredom, standing outside an embassy for hours on end with his unloaded gun. However, what was interesting was that he said that he would be called out for armed response about once a day, for a couple of years, but never had to fire a bullet in public once, in all that time.
Quote: Aaron @ October 3 2009, 7:34 PM BSTIf you mean "Did they bend over and let the EU take them roughly up the arse?", then the answer is yes.
Very odd goings on indeed. What is the point of having a referendum if the result is not binding the first time? If the result on the first one had been 'Yes' then do you think they would have got a second go at it then? We are currently sacrificing men and women (troops) in Afghanistan trying to teach the Afghans the moral righteousness of democracy and our closest neighbour is demonstrating how democracy can be be completely manipulated to suit the powers that be. What example is that?
Quote: DaButt @ October 4 2009, 12:01 AM BSTDon't forget the fathers.
Certainly not!
Quote: sootyj @ October 4 2009, 12:31 AM BSTReason why I don't agree with Dolly, Aaron is I agree with you on the state only being a certain size. In this case not offering benefits or tax breaks to promote life style choices.
That is one area I think the current one could decrease.I do think reasonable childcare should be offered. But paying family members to be carers is the most wrong headed example of big state thinking.
I don't agree that having children is a 'life style choice'. The problem is there isn't a choice for many families.
So the State can pay a stranger to look after them, but not the person/people who are usually best for the job?
Ms Dagger, the alternative is to take mothers out of the employment market until their children no longer need their care. It is what used to happen after all. This full employment rights for mothers thing is a recent development and of course it leads to the kind of problems you have hilighted. Women do need to decide just what it is they want, I feel. In my quite limited experience of the creatures, they fully demonstrated, without exception, the desire to have everything. This, even for women, is not possible.
Quote: Dolly Dagger @ October 4 2009, 11:28 AM BSTCertainly not!
I don't agree that having children is a 'life style choice'. The problem is there isn't a choice for many families.
So the State can pay a stranger to look after them, but not the person/people who are usually best for the job?
Well there is a get out of jail free card. Register yourself as your friends kids carers. It's one of the many entertaining ways you can rip off our leaky welfare state.
Frankly it's not that benefits have changed, but society has. Selling off council property in the 80s and the 90s cult of property values, has made us more venal and selfish. Several centuries of woman's rights boiled down to the ability to buy a house and an expensive handbag.
And as for tax breaks, benefit handouts. There are more deserving causes Labour has long had an obsession with giving money to those who don't need it.
Quote: sootyj @ October 4 2009, 11:51 AM BSTLabour has long had an obsession with giving money to those who don't need it.
And taking it away from those who do.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ October 4 2009, 10:56 AM BSTVery odd goings on indeed. What is the point of having a referendum if the result is not binding the first time? If the result on the first one had been 'Yes' then do you think they would have got a second go at it then? We are currently sacrificing men and women (troops) in Afghanistan trying to teach the Afghans the moral righteousness of democracy and our closest neighbour is demonstrating how democracy can be be completely manipulated to suit the powers that be. What example is that?
The EU has always had a weak relationship with democracy and openess. I think this Maastricht treaty is it's last chance. Perhaps it should break up and we form a more innocent richy rich gang with the other Euro super states. More like ASEAN or NAFTA. Germany, France, Poland, Netherlands, Italy etc. No more moralising or law writing just greed is good. And ya boo sucks to Rumania and all the other gypsy ridden wanna be's. Wow being Richard Littlejohn is quite fun.
Our attempt to bring democracy to Afghanistan. Is like saying a monkey pegging turds at the zoo is trying to share it's dinner. I think the British army is an amazing organisation and deeply heroic. I just think it's a tragedy they are being used so cheaply.
Quote: Tim Walker @ October 4 2009, 11:56 AM BSTAnd taking it away from those who do.
They took 2.5 % off VAT you ingrate!
Albeit the 10p tax rate bullshit would have made Thatcher smile.