Quote: roscoff @ September 3 2009, 3:45 PM BSTSuffice it to say that when we had them pinned to the outside wall of the pub they seemed quite contrite. Strange that!
Nice Ros, remind me not to cut you up on the Motorway
Just had some road rage..... Page 5
Did you tell your mum she had been avenged?
Quote: roscoff @ September 3 2009, 3:45 PM BSTHe had a gold helmet and was wearing a long mod jacket.
Was it Sting?
Quote: roscoff @ September 3 2009, 3:45 PM BSTTrue story of revenge. When I was about 18/19 I was taking my mum up to see her cousin. I was driving on a by-pass but with only with two lanes. Two mopeds came out in front of me from a turning. They wouldn't let me pass and just kept on flicking v's at me when I beeped my horn. I finally got to a passing point and as I passed they called me all the names under the sun as you can imagine. My mum was rather upset.
That evening I walked into my local with my mates. In those days I used to hang around with a pretty rough lot. Now a couple of things stood out about one of the riders. He had a gold helmet and was wearing a long mod jacket. Low and behold basically the first thing I saw on the floor by a table was the gold helmet.
Suffice it to say that when we had them pinned to the outside wall of the pub they seemed quite contrite. Strange that!
Can I buy you a pint Roscoff?
Quote: roscoff @ September 3 2009, 3:45 PM BSTTrue story of revenge. When I was about 18/19 I was taking my mum up to see her cousin. I was driving on a by-pass but with only with two lanes. Two mopeds came out in front of me from a turning. They wouldn't let me pass and just kept on flicking v's at me when I beeped my horn. I finally got to a passing point and as I passed they called me all the names under the sun as you can imagine. My mum was rather upset.
That evening I walked into my local with my mates. In those days I used to hang around with a pretty rough lot. Now a couple of things stood out about one of the riders. He had a gold helmet and was wearing a long mod jacket. Low and behold basically the first thing I saw on the floor by a table was the gold helmet.
Suffice it to say that when we had them pinned to the outside wall of the pub they seemed quite contrite. Strange that!
Good story.
Although I'm not sure how 'flicking v's' is disrespectful despite seeing it used in UK TV and movies. Does it mean "tosser"? And I think tosser means gay right?
Quote: Curt @ September 3 2009, 5:01 PM BST
Although I'm not sure how 'flicking v's' is disrespectful despite seeing it used in UK TV and movies. Does it mean "tosser"? And I think tosser means gay right?
there are 2 ways of flciking Vs one is a peaceful way with your palm facing them and the more offensive way is your palm facing towards yourself.
I don't know the reasons why... But someone does it to you, you generally get annoyed.
Quote: Paul W @ September 3 2009, 5:03 PM BSTthere are 2 ways of flciking Vs one is a peaceful way with your palm facing them and the more offensive way is your palm facing towards yourself.
I don't know the reasons why... But someone does it to you, you generally get annoyed.
The two fingers are the fingers that were used by the mighty English archers to humiliate the French at Azincourt and the like with the longbow. It was common practice for english archers when captured to have those fingers cut off. So gesturing those two fingers became short hand (pun intended) for 'f**k you' and the like.
And tosser means wanker. Not gay.
Quote: Marc P @ September 3 2009, 5:09 PM BSTThe two fingers are the fingers that were used by the mighty English archers to humiliate the French at Azincourt and the like with the longbow. It was common practice for english archers when captured to have those fingers cut off. So gesturing those two fingers became short hand (pun intended) for 'f**k you' and the like.
And tosser means wanker. Not gay.
Ahhh thank you for the clarification Paul and Marc. I'll be sure next time in England not to refer to them as Tosser Bars if chatting with any gay Brits.
Quote: Curt @ September 3 2009, 5:12 PM BSTAhhh thank you for the clarification Paul and Marc. I'll be sure next time in England not to refer to them as Tosser Bars if chatting with any gay Brits.
Oh yeah the longbow thing is related to it as well, I forgot about that.
And another good name for a gay man is nancy boy, might not know that one 
Quote: Marc P @ September 3 2009, 5:09 PM BSTThe two fingers are the fingers that were used by the mighty English archers to humiliate the French at Azincourt and the like with the longbow. It was common practice for english archers when captured to have those fingers cut off. So gesturing those two fingers became short hand (pun intended) for 'f**k you' and the like.
Urban myth.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp
http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/the-v-sign/biography/the-anti-french-gesture
Quote: Kenneth @ September 3 2009, 11:14 PM BSTUrban myth.
http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.asp
http://www.icons.org.uk/theicons/collection/the-v-sign/biography/the-anti-french-gesture
Not sure it is safe to use the internet as a reference when debunking anything - it does not help that the first article cited seems to believe that the story is the origin of the middle-finger salute rather than the V sign.
The historical basis of the explanation is Henry V's speech before Agincourt, as reported by a combatant, in which he incited his men by informing them that the French had boasted that they would cut off two fingers from the right of every English archer, so they could never draw a longbow again.
The articles, which are obviously unaware of this source, are correct in the assertion that executing archers was the more common practice, but such maiming was not unheard of. The Scot Sir James Douglas was said to have cut off the right hand and put out the right eye of any captured English archers.
I like the story behind it though. I think I'll start using it as a conversation started.
Quote: Timbo @ September 4 2009, 12:02 AM BSTNot sure it is safe to use the internet as a reference when debunking anything - it does not help that the first article cited seems to believe that the story is the origin of the middle-finger salute rather than the V sign.
The first item linked to is Snopes, debuking a middle-finger salute/finger chopping email. Snopes is generally quite thorough, reliable and lists its sources:
Axtell, Roger E. Gestures: The Do's and Taboos of Body Language Around the World. New York: John Wiley & Sons, 1991 ISBN 0-471-53672-5 (pp. 33-35).
Keegan, John. The Face of Battle. New York: Penguin Books, 1978 ISBN 0-140-04897-9 (pp. 78-116).
Opie, Iona and Moira Tatem. A Dictionary of Superstitions. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1992 ISBN 0-19-282916-5 (p. 454.)
Quote: Curt @ September 4 2009, 12:16 AM BSTI like the story behind it though. I think I'll start using it as a conversation started.
And so ridiculous urban myths continue to spread.
Then again, Wikipedia claims otherwise, making me feel more dumb than usual:
Origins
An early recorded use of the 'two-fingered salute' is in the Macclesfield Psalter of c.1330 (in the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge), being made by a glove in the psalter's marginalia.[4]
According to a popular legend the two-fingers salute and/or V sign derives from the gestures of longbowmen fighting in the English army at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) during the Hundred Years' War. The story claims that the French claimed that they would cut off the arrow-shooting fingers of all the English and Welsh longbowmen after they had won the battle at Agincourt. But the English came out victorious and showed off their two fingers, still intact. Historian Juliet Barker quotes Jean Le Fevre (who fought on the English side at Agincourt) as saying that Henry V included a reference to the French cutting off longbowmen's fingers in his pre-battle speech.
The first definitive known reference to the 'V-sign' in French is in the works of François Rabelais, a sixteenth-century satirist.
I have added to my post above. My source is Juliet Barker Agincourt: The King, The Campaign, The Battle, 2005. It is pretty much definitive (and a cracking read).
(EDIT: Our posts crossed.)
Indeed. More gumph from the Net: If this is correct it confirms that the story was around at the time of Agincourt, although it doesn't necessarily mean that the French practised it, just that Henry found it useful for propaganda, and it does not show that the 'two-fingers salute' is derived from the hypothetical behaviour of English archers at that battle. Indeed, there is no record of this explanation for the V sign before the 1970s, and it seems to be a popular myth.