So someone says the work here is poor, or whatever words the original poster used, and they're unhelpful and opinionated? But praise it all to high heaven and that's fine?
Surely that's just as unhelpful. I think a lot of people won't post their true feelings because it's quite a tight-knit community here. I think that fact is detrimental to gaining true thoughts on their work.
Harsh views about the quality of work in critique help no one and over self-opinionated views harshly dealt, don't help either.
Why are you so harsh?
I agree with Frankie about harsh views. Its much better to constructively criticise rather than just give a straight opinion. Tell them where, in your opinion, they did wrong and they are much more likely to learn from their mistakes.
As for making it well there are definatley at least 4 or 5 people who I would bet a fiver on making it. Also when the BSG sketch project is finished we will all make it. Rolls Royces and country mansions all round 
Amen to that!
I'm am not in the sketch project but I'll give you a salute as you drive past in your Rollers! 
Quote: Frankie Rage @ August 28, 2007, 10:41 AMHarsh views about the quality of work in critique help no one and over self-opinionated views harshly dealt, don't help either.
Why are you so harsh?
I've been harsh to nobody. Any examples?
Re: The critique forum. You seem to equate harsh with wrong. Just because someone is harsh, doesn't mean it can't be constructive. (I avoid the Critique forum - in terms of posting in it - because I don't find it that helpful for people)
I thoroughly enjoy the Writer's Discussions area, as its full of frank and interesting discussions, and I've yet to see anyone 'self-opinionated'. Just honesty.
Quote: ajp29 @ August 28, 2007, 10:51 AMI agree with Frankie about harsh views. Its much better to constructively criticise rather than just give a straight opinion. Tell them where, in your opinion, they did wrong and they are much more likely to learn from their mistakes.
But this is comedy. 'Not funny' (as the OP was suggesting) is surely a valid point? First and foremost, if it's not funny - then that's it. It's all well and good helping people get the layout right, and give them tips on writing plots - but if it's not funny then surely, in the long run, they're going to be a delusioned as they plough on. One reason the writer's room isn't helpful is they get a lot of work that's rubbish. If someone on here posts work that's not intrinsically funny, then shouldn't they be told?
Again, I will point out I have to real thoughts on work - I tend not to read that part of the forum.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ August 28, 2007, 10:53 AMAmen to that!
I'm am not in the sketch project but I'll give you a salute as you drive past in your Rollers!
I'll try and see if I can smuggle you in Frankie
Quote: Seefacts @ August 28, 2007, 10:53 AMI've been harsh to nobody. Any examples?
Re: The critique forum. You seem to equate harsh with wrong. Just because someone is harsh, doesn't mean it can't be constructive. (I avoid the Critique forum - in terms of posting in it - because I don't find it that helpful for people)
I thoroughly enjoy the Writer's Discussions area, as its full of frank and interesting discussions, and I've yet to see anyone 'self-opinionated'. Just honesty.
It may be that what you consider harsh and what I consider harsh are two different things. There seem to be a lot of self-opinionated views harshly stated in this thread alone, to me. You may find it enjoyable but it's not everybody's cup of tea! Unlike you, I do think the critique forum is helpful, potentially anyway.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ August 28, 2007, 11:02 AMIt may be that what you consider harsh and what I consider harsh are two different things. There seem to be a lot of self-opinionated views harshly stated in this thread alone, to me. You may find it enjoyable but it's not everybody's cup of tea! Unlike you, I do think the critique forum is helpful, potentially anyway.
I didn't mean to get across that it's not helpful, because it will be. Apologies for that.
I wouldn't say there's lots of self-opinionated stuff. Admittedly the OP said that most of the stuff here was 'terrible', but I don't think anyone is here is like that. (I'm not - I hope - I like to think I'm honest)
What's counts as harsh, you to? To me if someone is told there work isn't funny then that's valid surely? We're all trying to write comedy here aren't we?
Quote: Seefacts @ August 28, 2007, 10:53 AMI've been harsh to nobody. Any examples?
Re: The critique forum. You seem to equate harsh with wrong. Just because someone is harsh, doesn't mean it can't be constructive. (I avoid the Critique forum - in terms of posting in it - because I don't find it that helpful for people)
I thoroughly enjoy the Writer's Discussions area, as its full of frank and interesting discussions, and I've yet to see anyone 'self-opinionated'. Just honesty.
But this is comedy. 'Not funny' (as the OP was suggesting) is surely a valid point? First and foremost, if it's not funny - then that's it. It's all well and good helping people get the layout right, and give them tips on writing plots - but if it's not funny then surely, in the long run, they're going to be a delusioned as they plough on. One reason the writer's room isn't helpful is they get a lot of work that's rubbish. If someone on here posts work that's not intrinsically funny, then shouldn't they be told?
Again, I will point out I have to real thoughts on work - I tend not to read that part of the forum.
Just because YOU think something isn't funny doesn't mean that it isn't! That is what I mean about being self-opinionated. "I think it isn't funny, so it isn't funny and they should be told" You wanted an example of you being self-opinionated and harsh. Here it is!
I would prefer it if you say to me, "I don't find you funny, Frankie" rather than "You are not funny, Frankie". There's a world of difference, to me.
Anyway... I dunno mate, we are all different, eh?
My comments may have been harsh, but I did explain that I understand we are all amateurs and not professional writers.
When I do critique peoples writings in here, then I usually do point out what I think is wrong with it. I would never post "Shit. Give up!".
Also, I believe that the opinions of professional script readers and production companies will be a million times more blunt than anything ever posted on here.
Quote: Frankie Rage @ August 28, 2007, 11:09 AMJust because YOU think something isn't funny doesn't mean that it isn't! That is what I mean about being self-opinionated. "I think it isn't funny, so it isn't funny and they should be told" You wanted an example of you being self-opinionated and harsh. Here it is!
You misunderstand.
I've said nothing about the work on here - I'm being general.
The OP said most of the work here was terrible. Just because it's a chummy forum, he gets shot down as self-opinionated. He may well be correct.
If a lot of people said someone's work wasn't funny - is that okay, because there are most people giving the opinion?
Quote: Winterlight @ August 28, 2007, 11:12 AMAlso, I believe that the opinions of professional script readers and production companies will be a million times more blunt than anything ever posted on here.
100% correct.
The bits of the Critique forum I've seen tells me that if people who've got opinions on there go to a prod company, or producer, they better be prepared for something totally different. No niceties, no explanation - you many even get told 'Not funny'. These people don't care, they haven't got time.
Quote: Seefacts @ August 28, 2007, 11:12 AMYou misunderstand.
I've said nothing about the work on here - I'm being general.
The OP said most of the work here was terrible. Just because it's a chummy forum, he gets shot down as self-opinionated. He may well be correct.
If a lot of people said someone's work wasn't funny - is that okay, because there are most people giving the opinion?
You can't flatly say a piece of work isn't funny. You can only really say 'I don't find it funny'. If a lot of people say the same thing then that's fine, too.
But it might help the writer if you can say 'why' in a friendly and supportive way. That's all.
Maybe the original OP has an opinion shared by others or not. But the harsh comments came later in the thread. The original OP wasn't harsh. Over-dismissive maybe, but not harsh.
Quote: Winterlight @ August 28, 2007, 11:12 AMMy comments may have been harsh, but I did explain that I understand we are all amateurs and not professional writers.
When I do critique peoples writings in here, then I usually do point out what I think is wrong with it. I would never post "Shit. Give up!".
Also, I believe that the opinions of professional script readers and production companies will be a million times more blunt than anything ever posted on here.
I don't think people post in critique looking for a professional script readers opinion or a Production Companies opinion. They are looking for some detailed, constructive and supportive opinion from fellow writers or even just a 'I found it funny/didn't find it funny' comment or two.
I think most people realise that a Production Company doesn't have time to comment on scripts they don't want to work with. They are commercial companies that can only invest time in writers they may be interested in working with. That's why critique could potentially be so useful. I don't need some other writer on here stamping my work 'NOT FUNNY', thank you! What's the point of that? I can get that from Baby Cow?
I see what Frankie's saying here about saying something just 'Isn't funny', instead of 'I didn't find it funny', or in 'my opinion...' but then you could argue that everything said here is opinion. Humour is subjective.
However, it can still be unhelpful, particularly in the critique forum. There is nothing wrong with saying just 'very good' as the writer would have had the same opinion for them to have posted it in the first place and that's enough encouragement to keep producing that kind of work. However, with respect to that, if you only say 'It isn't funny' then the writer has no idea why and no help or direction in resolving it.
I think its quite brave to post sketches on this forums - especially with people having shown their true colours of late.
It is worrying when people wishing to write just come out and say 'the office was never funny.' and that's all. Not, I didn't find it funny but I can see why other people did. If you don't understand your market then it will make it even tougher to crack.
It's a tough one to make the leap from someone's writing standing out and reading well on a forum (that I think is incredibly friendly and helpful to anyone who posts work up) to it standing out when amongst a pile of other scripts on some disinterested personal assistant's desk.
I think that I've read a few things on here that display a real writing ability and talent, whether that is enough to actually make it is a whole separate issue. Which is a shame
It is true that people's responses to comedy is subjective, but is what we consider funny really subjective?
There are two kinds of comedy writing that people don't laugh at.
1. Writing that isn't actually comedy, but the writer thinks it is.
2. Things that they don't find funny.
Many things written by amateur writers fall into category #1.
#2 usually consists of jokes that you refuse to laugh at, because they are obvious, or easy to make, or offend you in someway, which outweighs the humourous impact. Under duress you accept that they are jokes.
This is why people say I didn't find The Mighty Boosh funny for example. The Mighty Boosh IS funny, but you may not laugh because it annoys you too much.
An example of #2 for me is 'wise-ass' American comedy. Sometimes the jokes are very good indeed, but I can't laugh because I can't stand wise-ass comedy, probably because I think the writer is indulging himself too much.