British Comedy Guide

Attention all moon landing sceptics Page 13

Quote: Leevil @ July 21 2009, 4:16 AM BST

Isn't that putting faith into someone else's hands?

And what is wrong with that? All it takes is acceptance that there are people who know more than I do. They've given me no reason to doubt them and, to an extent, I am able to verify much of what they say using my own knowledge of science and plain old common sense.

How do you know that the driver of the bus you're riding in is competent? What if he's a crazy psychopath like in the movies? What if he's a blind man who just stole a bus? Do you check his credentials, perform a background check and quiz him on the operation of a motor vehicle before you hop on?

Our brains perform thousands of calculations and weigh the risks and benefits of even the most mundane action before we act; we're not even aware of the process. But when you step on the bus you've already decided that it *is* a bus, it appears to be capable of safe operation, the driver appears to be in control of his faculties and nothing seems to be amiss.

As individuals we don't need to know *everything* but we do a pretty good job of assessing the situations that confront us. I'll even go as far as to say the conspiracy theorists are the real anomalies because they willfully ignore what common sense, logic and and experience are telling them and instead create grandiose and complicated scenarios in their place.

Well said. The kids and I watched the History Channel all day because of all the NASA programs being run, in honor of the anniversary. Even my youngest was fascinated by all of it.

Quote: DaButt @ July 21 2009, 4:35 AM BST

As individuals we don't need to know *everything* but we do a pretty good job of assessing the situations that confront us.

And where in evolution did we develop the ability to access whether we really went to the moon or even comprehend something on that scale?

It's a very nice one, but your bus analogy doesn't fit. You can't compare daily events with that of the moon landings, the holocaust and the universe itself.

Our conditions and the way we react to them are developed based on environmental factors (or so I've chosen to believe) which we experience all the time. As a westerner, growing up with modern science. I've been told all the facts about science and have been told they are gospel. I have put my faith into it, as much as anyone has done with religion. But, ironically, as a result of that. I have been taught to question my own God and not fear it. All I'm doing by questioning things, practicing what I preach.

Quote: Leevil @ July 21 2009, 4:53 AM BST

And where in evolution did we develop the ability to access whether we really went to the moon or even comprehend something on that scale?

It's a very nice one, but your bus analogy doesn't fit. You can't compare daily events with that of the moon landings, the holocaust and the universe itself.

The Holocaust and moon landings were momentous events, but nothing beyond even the most basic comprehension. They were undertaken by mere mortals, using guns and rockets and trains and tools forged from metal just as our ancestors did. They used gears and pencils and paper and saws and hammers and nails. Complicated tasks created from the most mundane materials by some smart people and some common laborers. A rocket is just a machine operated by some people and the same goes for Nazi gas chambers and city buses. None of it is so mysterious that we can't understand it.

It's possible to technically explain how it happened. But in the grand scheme of things, why did that happen?

Why do we feel the need to explore beyond or kill millions of Jews?

There are many theories; but I can't believe there is a definitive answer out there, not yet anyway.

Moon Landing, why? To take that giant leap? To get one over on the commies? Something a lot deeper?

God, I must go to bed now!

Quote: Leevil @ July 21 2009, 5:10 AM BST

It's possible to technically explain how it happened. But in the grand scheme of things, why did that happen?

Why do we feel the need to explore beyond or kill millions of Jews?

There are many theories; but I can't believe there is a definitive answer out there, not yet anyway.

Moon Landing, why? To take that giant leap? To get one over on the commies? Something a lot deeper?

People have always killed people. Power, money, fear, hatred, religion - take your pick.

Space exploration during the Cold War was a mixture of scientific curiosity, military invention and political prestige. All those still factor into modern space exploration, but as the missions get more complicated and expensive there's a greater emphasis on science and multinational cooperation. Humans have never seemed content to hunker down in one spot. We like to explore. I think the desire/need/ability of an organism to spread as far as possible is a constant. Life forms will grow and spread as long as the environment can sustain them.

I think the Apollo 8 mission needs more recognition. They were the first people at the Moon. They didn't go on it, but then you couldn't go on a lot of planets, like Jupiter, so maybe we should be consistent and define being AT a planet as really being there, and being ON it as a special case for solid bodies only.

Quote: Leevil @ July 21 2009, 2:58 AM BST

I think SlagA makes a good point *hides*.

I certainly don't see him denying the moon landings, but purely being brave enough to question them.

I don't understand how it's wrong to question anything. I welcome it.

We all have a right to our own interpretation and if we never questioned what we see or absorb. Then the disbelief and interest is lost. A cold hard fact maybe interesting. But is the human race ever interested in the full stop or will the infinitive questions always be asked?

It's good to question things but there comes a point where you aren't actually questioning something, you are just misunderstanding or ignoring all the evidence. going down that route leads to tryng to get creationism taught in science lessons.

For the moon landings to have been faked, not only would there have to be hundreds, if not thousands of American scientists involved in the conspiracy, you would also have lots of British scientists involved in the cover up as well as various Australian scientists (ever seen the film The Dish?). On top of that you would need to explain the USSR helping to cover it up as you can be sure they were tracking the launch and monitoring the transmissions from the moon and it would have been blindingly obvious to them if the transmissions had been faked and sent from Earth or had been sent from Earth and bounced off the moon somehow.

I see Buzz Aldrin's pushing for Mars exploration. Great if it happened, although I doubt it will.

Quote: Leevil @ July 21 2009, 4:53 AM BST

It's a very nice one, but your bus analogy doesn't fit. You can't compare daily events with that of the moon landings, the holocaust and the universe itself.

The problem is that's exactly what 1000s if not millions do. The Leuter report, the Iranian conferences. It's why the everything is subjective thing is dangerous.

Ultimately the Moon Landing doubters, the 9/11 doubters and the Holocaust deniers fall down on one thing. They have no alternative narrative, just the world is a strange place in which you can trust no one.

If the moon landings didn't take place where did that ruddy great rocket go? The arguments start getting truly silly when you see how much faith is placed in government agencies.

The CIA couldn't even assassinate Castro, the US military couldn't fake the Gulf of Tonkin. Yet these people fooled the entire world?

Another hypothesis is the US did fake a massive space project. It was called SDI or as it's better known starwars. They managed to just about keep it up for 10 years but their were severe doubts from day1.

Quote: sootyj @ July 21 2009, 10:45 AM BST

The problem is that's exactly what 1000s if not millions do. The Leuter report, the Iranian conferences. It's why the everything is subjective thing is dangerous.

Ultimately the Moon Landing doubters, the 9/11 doubters and the Holocaust deniers fall down on one thing. They have no alternative narrative, just the world is a strange place in which you can trust no one.

If the moon landings didn't take place where did that ruddy great rocket go? The arguments start getting truly silly when you see how much faith is placed in government agencies.

The CIA couldn't even assassinate Castro, the US military couldn't fake the Gulf of Tonkin. Yet these people fooled the entire world?

Another hypothesis is the US did fake a massive space project. It was called SDI or as it's better known starwars. They managed to just about keep it up for 10 years but their were severe doubts from day1.

I agree whole-heartedly with you on this, Sooty!

Quote: Griff @ July 21 2009, 11:07 AM BST

What generally annoys me (and this is not aimed at SlagA) is that moon landing conspiracists are usually idiots who couldn't work out the change at a 99p shop and yet they demand to be taken seriously when they proclaim that they've spotted something which all the world's scientists haven't.

I prefer Poundland to the 99p shops. It bothers me that I'm going to get 1p back that I will literally do nothing at all with. Ever.

On your wider point, may I refer you to the GK Chesterton quote: "When a Man stops believing in God he doesn't then believe in nothing, he believes anything."

Always buy products there in units of 10.

That way you'll always get 10p change. Then laugh as the cretin tries to count using all of their fingers.

And if science is a cult, so what? I can't even prove I'll poo tomorrow just that it's likely, everything is a matter of faith.

If people are believing in rational exploration over angry bloke in the sky then for me that's a good thing.

If they believe it over crystals and angels double good.

Quote: Griff @ July 21 2009, 11:36 AM BST

I like Wodehouse's quote about a loud crash which "sounded like G.K.Chesterton falling on a sheet on tin". Especially when you see the size of GKC.

Drifting off topic, but eager to brag, last week I found a first edition of Wodehouse's first book The Pothunters in a pile of old books on the floor of an antique furniture warehouse. Inside was penciled the price tag of only $2. Amazing! I then discovered the first 14 pages were missing. But still, I mean, really!

Glancing at this thread reminded me of a spoof documentary from Anglia TV in 1977. Alternative3 (great title). Is it well-known? I guess nobody here saw it live. Innocent times maybe, but many people didn't realise it was a spoof.

Listen to Apollo astonaut Bob Grodin being interviewed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYmMx9_sWf8

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