Ronnie Biggs Page 4

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 2:50 PM BST

He was actually more a friend of a friend.

This was almost 30 years ago and drunk driving was as hot a topic as it is today. It was New Year's Eve and he was so drunk that he didn't remember hitting the guy. When he heard about the hit-and-run death on the news the next day he knew how the damage and blood on his car had appeared. His father turned him in to the police. He was only charged with vehicular manslaughter because they couldn't prove that he was drunk at the time.

The man he killed was the brother of one of his friends and the family didn't want to send the kid to jail because of an accident he couldn't undo. He had already been accepted at a university and had a clean criminal record. They made him serve a month in the county jail and revoked his license for 5 or 10 years.

View original

Not much for a life, is it? Not sure I'd have felt that way if it had been one of my friends or family killed.

I wasn't keen on The Snowman, but I don't think he should have gone to prison for it.

Quote: chipolata @ July 2 2009, 3:16 PM BST

I wasn't keen on The Snowman, but I don't think he should have gone to prison for it.

View original

Can you believe I haven't had anything on Newsjack yet????

Quote: Rob H @ July 2 2009, 3:04 PM BST

Not much for a life, is it? Not sure I'd have felt that way if it had been one of my friends or family killed.

View original

Sentencing should take into account the offender's history and the victim's wishes. This was a kid who screwed up and accidentally killed someone. He had no history of crime or violence. He was devastated by what he did and the victim's family knew it. What good would it do society to lock him away for years? He never touched another drink, so the only reason for locking him away would be vengeance on the part of his victim's family.

I'd be devastated if someone ran over one of my kids. But if it was a first offence and he/she was clearly sorry, what good would years in prison do either of us? But I could easily demand 20 years in prison if he/she was a repeat DUI offender, had a lengthy criminal record and showed no remorse.

Quote: chipolata @ July 2 2009, 3:17 PM BST

I wasn't keen on The Snowman, but I don't think he should have gone to prison for it.

View original

That did actually make me laugh out loud.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 3:18 PM BST

Sentencing should take into account the offender's history and the victim's wishes. This was a kid who screwed up and accidentally killed someone. He had no history of crime or violence. He was devastated by what he did and the victim's family knew it. What good would it do society to lock him away for years? He never touched another drink, so the only reason for locking him away would be vengeance on the part of his victim's family.

I'd be devastated if someone ran over one of my kids. But if it was a first offence and he/she was clearly sorry, what good would years in prison do either of us? But I could easily demand 20 years in prison if he/she was a repeat DUI offender, had a lengthy criminal record and showed no remorse.

View original

I know what you're saying, and if I wasn't so darned hot and irritible I think I would agree with you more than I do at this particular moment in time. That said, I do think vengeance has a part to pay within the justice system. For many crimes there's no possibility of achieving restitution for the victim, so all that's left is punishment.

I'm a bit confused DaButt. We seem to have switched viewpoints today.

I suppose a long prison sentence wouldn't help.

I'd be more inclined to go with long term civil restitution.
I mean if some one isn't dangerous or a flight risk they shouldn't be locked up (maybe at the weekends). I think though that the death sentence should be retained for certain patterns of continuos offending.

Quote: sootyj @ July 2 2009, 3:26 PM BST

I think though that the death sentence should be retained for certain patterns of continuos offending.

View original

I'm not a big supporter of the death penalty, but it has its place - mainly in the arena of national security. Spies and traitors should be executed - especially if their motivation is greed and not idealism. Brutal dictators and terrorists are also on my list.

The consequences for causing the death of another human being range from the death penalty all the way to a hero's celebration. Every death doesn't deserve punishment.

thats why I say patterns of crime.

for example persistent drink driving with out a license, continuing patterns of extreme violence especially when they increase in intensity.

some forms of murder shouldn't even involve a prison sentence, but rather a life time of making recompence.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 3:36 PM BST

Spies and traitors should be executed - especially if their motivation is greed and not idealism.

View original

What if they're betraying their country for a bet? Is that worth the death penalty?

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 2:50 PM BST

He was actually more a friend of a friend.

This was almost 30 years ago and drunk driving was as hot a topic as it is today. It was New Year's Eve and he was so drunk that he didn't remember hitting the guy. When he heard about the hit-and-run death on the news the next day he knew how the damage and blood on his car had appeared. His father turned him in to the police. He was only charged with vehicular manslaughter because they couldn't prove that he was drunk at the time.

The man he killed was the brother of one of his friends and the family didn't want to send the kid to jail because of an accident he couldn't undo. He had already been accepted at a university and had a clean criminal record. They made him serve a month in the county jail and revoked his license for 5 or 10 years.

View original

Which ever way you cut it, that's still a rum outcome, and I can't believe the response of the dead persons family. Incredible.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 3:18 PM BST

He never touched another drink, so the only reason for locking him away would be vengeance on the part of his victim's family.

View original

Seems fair enough to me. He killed someone, he may not have wanted to, he may feel terribly guilty, he may never do a bad thing again, but someone still died. If it was an accident, then fair enough, but he was drunk and got behind the wheel, that's a different matter entirely.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 3:18 PM BST

Sentencing should take into account the offender's history and the victim's wishes. This was a kid who screwed up and accidentally killed someone. He had no history of crime or violence. He was devastated by what he did and the victim's family knew it. What good would it do society to lock him away for years? He never touched another drink, so the only reason for locking him away would be vengeance on the part of his victim's family.

I'd be devastated if someone ran over one of my kids. But if it was a first offence and he/she was clearly sorry, what good would years in prison do either of us? But I could easily demand 20 years in prison if he/she was a repeat DUI offender, had a lengthy criminal record and showed no remorse.

View original

It a weird way that works... I used to study law and got a little frustrated with people who say performed a violent crime or did some sort of offence, they showed remorse along with character statements and no previous convictions but they get years in jail for it.

I had a perfect case study but I can't remember it! I think it was a wife that killed her husband or something.

Quote: Paul W @ July 2 2009, 4:20 PM BST

I had a perfect case study but I can't remember it! I think it was a wife that killed her husband or something.

View original

You'd have been dynamite in court.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ July 2 2009, 4:19 PM BST

Which ever way you cut it, that's still a rum outcome, and I can't believe the response of the dead persons family. Incredible.

View original

The families of both the driver and the victim were close friends. Would you want your mother to rot in prison if she accidentally killed your father?

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 4:53 PM BST

The families of both the driver and the victim were close friends. Would you want your mother to rot in prison if she accidentally killed your father?

View original

If a close family friend had got drunk and killed a member of my family, then yes, I would be quite happy to see that person go to jail for a reasonable length of time. The Mum killing my Dad thing is another question altogether.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ July 2 2009, 4:57 PM BST

If a close family friend had got drunk and killed a member of my family, then yes, I would be quite happy to see that person go to jail for a reasonable length of time. The Mum killing my Dad thing is another question altogether.

View original

So the only difference between the two is that one person is family? Many friendships are as close as, or closer, than family relationships. As I said, the wishes of the victim (or his/her survivors) should weigh heavily in the sentence.

Quote: DaButt @ July 2 2009, 5:13 PM BST

As I said, the wishes of the victim (or his/her survivors) should weigh heavily in the sentence.

View original

Yes, but 30 days is nothing for a life, that's my feeling on the matter, no matter how close you are to the person who did the killing. That's what I think anyway.