Scum Page 9

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ June 28 2009, 6:17 PM BST

In my opinion violent crime all stems from one's early years and upbringing. Better parenting would solve the problem.

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Or sterilisation.

Children that are raised very strictly are also prone to becoming un-emphatic and/or violent as those set no behaviour boundaries.

Perhaps but the violence tends to be less random. And while violence is nothing new in British society, the sort motiveless violence of which Bigfella's daughter was a victim, was I think far less prevalent in past decades.

Quote: Aaron @ June 28 2009, 5:10 PM BST

Unfortunately they're likely to get arrested.

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I know but I'm not just talking getting in there and breaking it up, I'm talking picking up a phone and calling the police. You'd be amazed how few people will even do that. I was once attacked trying to call the police after two of my work colleague were attacked by these drunks. I fought back but got my head smashed into the phonebox. But I tried and I got through before the guy got me and in a bizzare way, I'd rather that happened than I was unharmed but my work collegues were beaten half to death and the guys were not caught.

I remember a film from Japan based on a true story about a bus. Two men got on and robbed the passengers. The bus was full so the passengers out numbered the two men. One of the men dragged the female bus driver outside and started to rape her. One man tried to save her and was beaten by the other man. The rest of the passengers still sat calmly and did nothing. When they left, the bus driver returns to the bus and tells the man who tried to save her not to get back on and drives off. Later the man hears that she drove the bus with the passengers off a cliff!

Just thought I'd share that.

Quote: Timbo @ June 28 2009, 6:29 PM BST

Perhaps but the violence tends to be less random. And while violence is nothing new in British society, the sort motiveless violence of which Bigfella's daughter was a victim, was I think far less prevalent in past decades.

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I'm not so sure. Pyschologists believe there's a lot of paranoia around today, that stems from parents, that starts off the whole "what are you looking at?" pre-cursor to many a fight. So in a way there is a (warped and incorrect) motive to some of these attacks.

Quote: RubyMae - Glamourous Snowdrop at Large @ June 28 2009, 6:35 PM BST

I remember a film from Japan based on a true story about a bus. Two men got on and robbed the passengers. The bus was full so the passengers out numbered the two men. One of the men dragged the female bus driver outside and started to rape her. One man tried to save her and was beaten by the other man. The rest of the passengers still sat calmly and did nothing. When they left, the bus driver returns to the bus and tells the man who tried to save her not to get back on and drives off. Later the man hears that she drove the bus with the passengers off a cliff!

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That sounds like a good film.

I think drugs play a massive part too. They can make you extremely paranoid and hold long term damaging effects on the brain. I think most of these attacks are cause by alcohol or drugs. One of the reasons I don't do drugs. I also don't drink anymore (though before I hardly drank ether).

Quote: DaButt @ June 28 2009, 6:37 PM BST

That sounds like a good film.

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It was a short, can't remember the title for the life of me.

As far as military service goes, it's hard to explain unless you've gone back home and seen how pathetically whiny, insecure and lazy your old friends were. The military does a great job of teaching self-discipline, self-reliance and self-motivation. It's not "breaking the spirit" at all.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ June 28 2009, 6:36 PM BST

I'm not so sure. Pyschologists believe there's a lot of paranoia around today, that stems from parents, that starts off the whole "what are you looking at?" pre-cursor to many a fight. So in a way there is a (warped and incorrect) motive to some of these attacks.

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Possibly an element of truth in that, but I suspect that the response itself has more to do with people not having learned to control their anger or fear consequences.

Quote: RubyMae - Glamourous Snowdrop at Large @ June 28 2009, 6:39 PM BST

It was a short, can't remember the title for the life of me.

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Is it a Chinese film called Bus 44? That's what Google seems to think.

My friend was attacked at work a few years ago by an girlfriend of my flatmate. Out of the blue, totally random. Eventually this girl did apologised and agreed to meet her and talk about it in a public place. Turned out the reason she attacked her was because this girl we knew who worked at the same place wound her up by telling her my friend had been sleeping with him behind her back and bragging about it (so not true at all) so when she appeared, this girl lost it. Needless to say this shit stirrer got a mouthful and was fired. Sometimes these things are caused by egging on by others.

Quote: DaButt @ June 28 2009, 6:44 PM BST

Is it a Chinese film called Bus 44? That's what Google seems to think.

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I think that might be it. Rings a bell.

It was on 3am in the morning.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 28 2009, 5:56 PM BST

No bloody way. There is no chance in hell that I would have joined the army for two years. That's basically punishing people who've done nothing wrong and were never going to do anything wrong!

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Punishing the innocent is a really good idea.
When people learn that society is neither fair nor predictable it'll instill the values respect have failed to.

Quote: DaButt @ June 28 2009, 5:56 PM BST

Wow. Never heard of it.

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Well it's something the US got right. Hit the greedy criminal f**ks where it really hurts...their dinner.

N.B. Sweden, Germany even Israel all have none military national service. I did voluntary work with a bunch of Germans. Having to leave home for 2 years and find something to do to stay out of the army taught them useful independence skills.

The state demanding you grow up and move on is a good thing. Don't want the army then pick veggies, or work on a Kibbutz or help in a hospital.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ June 28 2009, 6:17 PM BST

Sorry to hear about your daughter Bigfella and your justifiable anger.

Personally I don't think society is any more violent than in the past. I've heard enough stories about Glasgow in the '50s. Girls being more violent is a side-effect of gender equality. I also saw plenty of it in the 80s and 90s.

In my opinion violent crime all stems from one's early years and upbringing. Better parenting would solve the problem. Children that are raised very strictly are also prone to becoming un-emphatic and/or violent as those set no behaviour boundaries. Children raised with a healthy sense of right and wrong, good self-esteem and with unconditional love are highly unlikely to commit violent crimes and if they do are unlikely to re-offend with basic punishments.

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For the first time I agreed with the government when they suggesting punishing disinterested parents.

Quote: sootyj @ June 28 2009, 7:01 PM BST

The state demanding you grow up and move on is a good thing. Don't want the army then pick veggies, or work on a Kibbutz or help in a hospital.

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I agree 100%. Especially if you plan to claim government benefits (student loans, welfare, medical insurance, etc.) later in life.

And leaving home, seeing new things, meeting new, people learning to be yourself, is a good thing.

People in this country can be so stuck in the place they grew up.

Quote: DaButt @ June 28 2009, 6:20 PM BST

I know people aged 18 to 90 who have served in the military (both voluntary and drafted) and none of them regretted it. Wars are no fun, but the military experience itself is almost always a positive one as far as personal growth goes.

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I would not have wanted to be in the army, end of story. It's not right for every person and you shouldn't be made to sign up. Simple as that.

Quote: sootyj @ June 28 2009, 7:03 PM BST

Punishing the innocent is a really good idea.
When people learn that society is neither fair nor predictable it'll instill the values respect have failed to.

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That's a pretty silly thing to say Sooty that I imagine you're voicing for effect.

But how about if you'd been told army or social work or maybe just helping build homes for homeless people?

At 18 having to make a positive decision about travelling leaving home and experiencing the world.

Quote: sootyj @ June 28 2009, 7:11 PM BST

But how about if you'd been told army or social work or maybe just helping build homes for homeless people?

At 18 having to make a positive decision about travelling leaving home and experiencing the world.

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When I was eighteen I went to University to study; when I left I got a job. Hasn't done me any harm. Yes though, I'm sure it would have fealt nice to have been involved in something beneficial to others. But I really can't see, once you're strictly speaking an adult, how being forced to do anything can generally be a good idea.