Thanks to all who posted 
Return To Sender Episode 1 - sitcom
Hi Random, I think I commented previously on this, I'd certaily read it.
I like the style and some of the jokes are funny but my inclanation is that some of the dialogues are far too long and wordy. I would be aiming to cut them down to a couple of lines in a properly formatted script, as a guide, there are exceptions to this obviously.
I think they contain too much banter, the stuff about the banana postcard for example. There was a funny gag in there but, for me, it was lost over the course of the banter. And funny as it was, it didn't seem to go anywhere and felt like it was there purely because it was a good joke. That is to say, you could have got into the crux of the story far quicker without it slowing things down.
I also got a bit lost with all of the characters and them dipping in and out of each others conversations.
It wasn't an unenjoyable read, but I would suggest you need to say the same thing in less pages ie somebody is going to loose their job and his workmates are going to have a drink with him to send him off.
Have you written the whole episode yet? I find it easier to cut things out when I'm up to 7500 words and 70 plus pages because I know somethings got to give.
Keep going at it, I'm sure there's a decent pilot in there somewhere.
Quote: steve by any other name @ May 20 2009, 4:39 PM BSTsome of the dialogues are far too long and wordy.
I think they contain too much banter
Agree with Steve. You seem to feel obliged to explain everything. I've edited some of the opening dialogue to show you (in my humble opinion!) how it could be improved:
__________________________________________________________________________________
SUE:
(TO DEANO) That Debbie from the Estate has been at it again. Dunno how she gets the bookings - totally off her face every night with a different fella . Slapper. It's her husband I feel sorry for.
DEANO:
Weren't she y' best mate?
SUE:
Not any more. She started them rumours that I'd cheated on Trevor, broke his heart it did.
DEANO:
I bet you give her what for.
SUE:
Yeah, not many - she made it sound all sleazy. I'd only nipped up to the pub for a couple, then one or two at the club. I was well pissed by eleven and well poked by a bloke at half-past. It didn't mean anything mind - well, not in them days.
________________________________________________________________________________
Quote: steve by any other name @ May 20 2009, 4:39 PM BSTHi Random, I think I commented previously on this, I'd certaily read it.
I like the style and some of the jokes are funny but my inclanation is that some of the dialogues are far too long and wordy. I would be aiming to cut them down to a couple of lines in a properly formatted script, as a guide, there are exceptions to this obviously.
I think they contain too much banter, the stuff about the banana postcard for example. There was a funny gag in there but, for me, it was lost over the course of the banter. And funny as it was, it didn't seem to go anywhere and felt like it was there purely because it was a good joke. That is to say, you could have got into the crux of the story far quicker without it slowing things down.
I also got a bit lost with all of the characters and them dipping in and out of each others conversations.
It wasn't an unenjoyable read, but I would suggest you need to say the same thing in less pages ie somebody is going to loose their job and his workmates are going to have a drink with him to send him off.
Have you written the whole episode yet? I find it easier to cut things out when I'm up to 7500 words and 70 plus pages because I know somethings got to give.
Keep going at it, I'm sure there's a decent pilot in there somewhere.
Cheers steve baon,
I appreciate your feedback.
I don't mind a wee trim here n' there however, I do want it to sound natural. I don't want to cut back on dialogue so much that it makes it all obviously tight.
Re: 'banana postcard for example/it was there purely because it was a good joke', thank you
I understand what you mean though mate and I appreciate their are guidelines to follow but not everything is set in stone.
Re: 'characters - dipping in and out of each others conversations', as people do.
Re: 'suggest you need to say the same thing in less pages', like I said, I don't mind trimming a bit of dialogue but I want scene's like this at a slow pace.
May I add, not every scene is at the same intended slower pace.
Yes, episode one is wrote but not finished.
Big thanks for your time out to read and post comments,
jules
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:37 PM BSTCheers steve baon,
I appreciate your feedback.
I don't mind a wee trim here n' there however, I do want it to sound natural. I don't want to cut back on dialogue so much that it makes it all obviously tight.
Jules you are writing a play. Embrace that and all will be cool.
Quote: Morrace @ May 20 2009, 6:27 PM BSTAgree with Steve. You seem to feel obliged to explain everything. I've edited some of the opening dialogue to show you (in my humble opinion!) how it could be improved:
__________________________________________________________________________________SUE:
(TO DEANO) That Debbie from the Estate has been at it again. Dunno how she gets the bookings - totally off her face every night with a different fella . Slapper. It's her husband I feel sorry for.DEANO:
Weren't she y' best mate?SUE:
Not any more. She started them rumours that I'd cheated on Trevor, broke his heart it did.DEANO:
I bet you give her what for.SUE:
Yeah, not many - she made it sound all sleazy. I'd only nipped up to the pub for a couple, then one or two at the club. I was well pissed by eleven and well poked by a bloke at half-past. It didn't mean anything mind - well, not in them days.________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Morrace,
For your humble opinion!
Appreciated 
Understand what you mean reading the example you've given and yes I dare say so many sitcoms n' such likes do follow the golden rules of trim, trim, trim but I can't help but feel too much can destroy a natural feel.
I want it to be credible. I know I could trim it down to probably half of what is there but then it would end up sounding like so many other sitcoms... I don't want that.
On the other hand I don't want to go too far the other way either. I do honestly feel I found some middle ground now.
I don't want you to think I'm being pig headed and ignoring your advice, that is not the case, it's just that I'm not going for that style of sitcom.
Thanks again for your time, may I ask what did you think overall?
jules
All sit-com dialogue is tight. It just appears to be natural.
I liked it. However I do agree with a lot of the previous comments. Cut, cut and cut again, imo.
Quote: steven @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTAll sit-com dialogue is tight. It just appears to be natural.
I liked it. However I do agree with a lot of the previous comments. Cut, cut and cut again, imo.
Quote: Marc P @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTEmbrace that and all will be cool.
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTI don't want you to think I'm being pig headed and ignoring your advice, that is not the case, it's just that I'm not going for that style of sitcom.
I think it's important to listen to the criticism and understand it, then if you ignore it you're doing so with a purpose. If you can justify your position in full knowledge of what may be considered to be 'wrong' then you're just demonstrating your belief in the project. And if it gets taken any further you're going to have to justify that belief a whole lot more and ultimately, fingers crossed, sacrifice all things you once held dear for a flippin great wadge of cash.
My only worry would be that the story is curtailed because of the time dedicated to dialogue.
I'd be happy to read more and see how it pans out if you want.
steve
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTI dare say so many sitcoms n' such likes do follow the golden rules of trim, trim, trim
'trim, trim, trim'? - 'golden rules'? Well, maybe for 'Desmonds'
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTtrim, trim, trim but I can't help but feel too much can destroy a natural feel.
Thing is, there's no 'natural feel' there in the first place.
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTit's just that I'm not going for that style of sitcom.
With respect; don't hide behind 'style'. There's 'Bottom' and there's 'My Family'. The dialogue in each is natural - N. B. - to the characters.
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 7:57 PM BSTmay I ask what did you think overall?
Frankly, I don't think it was particularly funny. I think you're trying to run before you can walk. The majority of great sitcom writers (Renwick, Nobbs, Speight, etc.) started with sketches. I suggest you do the same.
Check this out, Jules – it's not perfect but most of the dialogue is natural and the characters 'live' for me - oh - and I laughed!
There's still a lot of explaining going on and it's far too long. You've established a perfectly plausible plot early on, but then you keep going with banter.
The banter doesn't do much to establish any relationships. Look at the very first appearence of Rimmer and Lister in Red Dwarf - there's some wonderful verbal sparring which establishes exactly what the characters are about.
I remember last time you posted you kept mentioning this 'natural dialogue' that you're after. Can you give us some examples of previous shows using the dialogue? I'm not sure what you're aiming for at the minute. Is it an Early Doors sort of feel?
I liked this line: "You've a real spring in your shuffle"
Quote: steve by any other name @ May 21 2009, 8:51 AM BSTI think it's important to listen to the criticism and understand it, then if you ignore it you're doing so with a purpose. If you can justify your position in full knowledge of what may be considered to be 'wrong' then you're just demonstrating your belief in the project. And if it gets taken any further you're going to have to justify that belief a whole lot more and ultimately, fingers crossed, sacrifice all things you once held dear for a flippin great wadge of cash.
My only worry would be that the story is curtailed because of the time dedicated to dialogue.
I'd be happy to read more and see how it pans out if you want.
steve
Cheers again
I do listen and understand and realise a trim here n' their is needed, just didn't want to go down the extreme trimming road!
Quote: random @ May 20 2009, 8:01 PM BST
It's the conventions of the form is all. The static nature of the one set and long bantering dialogue. I am suggesting you write the piece as a stage play. Get it staged, invite some industry people along with a view to adapting it to a sitcom format after that.
Quote: Marc P @ May 21 2009, 2:33 PM BSTIt's the conventions of the form is all. The static nature of the one set and long bantering dialogue. I am suggesting you write the piece as a stage play. Get it staged, invite some industry people along with a view to adapting it to a sitcom format after that.
And it really is that simple.
Quote: Marc P @ May 21 2009, 2:33 PM BSTIt's the conventions of the form is all. The static nature of the one set and long bantering dialogue. I am suggesting you write the piece as a stage play. Get it staged, invite some industry people along with a view to adapting it to a sitcom format after that.
lol. You make it all sound so easy Mr P
However I don't intend on one set for the whole sitcom.
Quote: Morrace @ May 21 2009, 9:04 AM BST'trim, trim, trim'? - 'golden rules'? Well, maybe for 'Desmonds'
Thing is, there's no 'natural feel' there in the first place.
With respect; don't hide behind 'style'. There's 'Bottom' and there's 'My Family'. The dialogue in each is natural - N. B. - to the characters.
Frankly, I don't think it was particularly funny. I think you're trying to run before you can walk. The majority of great sitcom writers (Renwick, Nobbs, Speight, etc.) started with sketches. I suggest you do the same.
Check this out, Jules – it's not perfect but most of the dialogue is natural and the characters 'live' for me - oh - and I laughed!
Thanks once again for your thoughts Morrace.