Quote: Yellows 586 @ May 19 2009, 1:47 PM BSTI think that was only the case at the 2005 election.
I'd heard that fact before 2005, but great to know we've got another one already under our belts! 
Stephen Fry hits the nail on the head! Page 13
Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 1:50 PM BSTThen Labour can kiss goodbye to power forever. Madness on their part. Or arrogance I suppose: "We will control the Scottish Parliament..."
You're like a mini-Aaron, aren't you? Labour's going through a bad patch and will get a drubbing at the next election, but the pendulum will swing back. It always does. It was only six or seven years ago that they were talking about the Tories never winning pwer again. Everything's cyclical in British politics.
Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 1:50 PM BSTWhich is another issue- devolution. Can't understand why Labour brought all that in with their guff about how it will 'strengthen' the Union. Balls will it. The Scots will get their referendum and, if the SNP play it right, their independence. Then Labour can kiss goodbye to power forever. Madness on their part. Or arrogance I suppose: "We will control the Scottish Parliament..."
Oh don't even get me started on devolution. 
Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 1:52 PM BSTYou're like a mini-Aaron, aren't you? Labour's going through a bad patch and will get a drubbing at the next election, but the pendulum will swing back. It always does. It was only six or seven years ago that they were talking about the Tories never winning pwer again. Everything's cyclical in British politics.
Eh? Politics is cyclical, yes. But that has nothing to do with splitting the electorate. Puts us into a different ballpark again.
Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 1:50 PM BSTWhich is another issue- devolution. Can't understand why Labour brought all that in with their guff about how it will 'strengthen' the Union. Balls will it. The Scots will get their referendum and, if the SNP play it right, their independence. Then Labour can kiss goodbye to power forever. Madness on their part. Or arrogance I suppose: "We will control the Scottish Parliament..."
If Salmond had got his way and created what was it; the north Atlantic "arc of prosperity" with countries like Iceland, Scotland would now be bankrupt.
I'm loving this decision not to investigate leaks. A totally vile situation that they were asked to in the first place. This Government is about as corrupt and hypocritical as it gets.
Quote: Yellows 586 @ May 19 2009, 1:54 PM BSTIf Salmond had got his way and created what was it; the north Atlantic "arc of prosperity" with countries like Iceland, Scotland would now be bankrupt.
That would have been several shades of hilarious. Particularly when he would then, undoubtedly, come crawling back with his begging hat pleading with England for money.
Quote: Aaron @ May 19 2009, 2:12 PM BSTThis Government is about as corrupt and hypocritical as it gets.
Most governments get that way after so long in power.
Quote: Aaron @ May 19 2009, 2:12 PM BSTThat would have been several shades of hilarious. Particularly when he would then, undoubtedly, come crawling back with his begging hat pleading with England for money.
And we'd have made him wear that bloody ridiculous blue Braveheart face-paint, and dance like a Scotch monkey.
I would pay to see that.
Quote: bigfella @ May 19 2009, 2:13 PM BSTMost governments get that way after so long in power.
Agreed. At least this government hasn't had anyone sent to prison yet unlike the Tories under Major. However, considering what's happened over the last few weeks that's only a matter of time as well.
I'm watching this incredulously. The extent to which Labour MPs and Peers just do not get this is astonishing. They miss public anger and ill-feeling on every level. They are a disgrace to humanity, not just Parliament. Sickening.
Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 1:52 PM BSTYou're like a mini-Aaron, aren't you? Labour's going through a bad patch and will get a drubbing at the next election, but the pendulum will swing back. It always does. It was only six or seven years ago that they were talking about the Tories never winning pwer again. Everything's cyclical in British politics.
I'm a mini-no-one!
Yes politics is cyclical, but Labour have never shot themselves in the foot like this..
With devolution they have *potentially* sliced off their traditional heartlands: Wales and Scotland. In England the North West and North East will always return Labour MPs but they can't rely on the rest of the country. Scottish Labour supporters will be as relevant to Westminster/London as Spanish Labour supporters - unable to lift a finger to help.
Plus in the past they may have been fools, incompetants, militants or just plain wrong, but they have rarely been exposed as corrupt on a scale like this. A new 'left-of-centre' force will be formed I'm sure. We'll end up back in the 19th Century with Tories and Liberals.
In many ways, the experience of Labour in opposition against Major will have caused this: they won in 1997 by ramping up the image of corrupt and sleazy Tories and promised a new deal and honesty, integrity and other sanctimonious sleight-of-hand waffle in the manifesto. Well that went well didn't it? By setting such high standards they've made their downfall all the greater. If there's any voter apathy its been caused by the exposure of Labour as just as self-serving and morally bankrupt as anybody else.
Quote: Maurice Minor @ May 19 2009, 2:33 PM BSTI'm a mini-no-one!
Yes politics is cyclical, but Labour have never shot themselves in the foot like this..
And in fifteen years time we'll be talking about the deeply sleezy and corrupt David Camerob/George Osbourne administrations, and how they're going to get wiped out at the next election. It's nice that you still adhere to this Labour/Tory divide, but there really isn't much difference between any of them.
Quote: bigfella @ May 19 2009, 2:13 PM BSTMost governments get that way after so long in power.
Perhaps it's time to implement a variation of the US style of governing whereby after two terms you're out. Except in this case it will be the party itself that's out. Surely that's more democratic?
Sunday 21st June. Yikes.
Quote: oldcowgrazing @ May 19 2009, 2:36 PM BSTPerhaps it's time to implement a variation of the US style of government whereby after two terms you're out. Except in this case it will be the party itself that's out. Surely that's more democratic?
How, on any level, is ensuring that the public cannot have a free choice, MORE democratic? What a bizarre suggestion.
Quote: chipolata @ May 19 2009, 2:36 PM BSTIt's nice that you still adhere to this Labour/Tory divide, but there really isn't much difference between any of them.
...? We're talking institutions, not ideologies. Why are you blurring them into one? Will you next be suggesting that there is no difference between Apple and Microsoft, because they both want to deliver the "best" operating systems?
Quote: Aaron @ May 19 2009, 2:40 PM BSTHow, on any level, is ensuring that the public cannot have a free choice, MORE democratic? What a bizarre suggestion.
Screw the public. I'm sick to death of them.