William Shakespeare - Genius or twat?

After reading the responses to Chipolata's post re. Sir Russell Brand, I thought I'd pose the the same question re. the 'Bard'

I'm in two minds about William Shakespeare. I think he was tremendously talented, with a wildly original mind. When I see his comedy plays he can be great. At the same time, he tends to use silly phrases like, "Et tu, Brute?", "To be or not to be", "beware the Ides of March," - not to mention the ridiculous:

Double, double toil and trouble;
Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt and toe of frog,
Wool of bat and tongue of dog
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Was he a ranting Gordon Ramsey?
Or just an actor/writer pansy?
I may be kicking up a stink
What do other people think?

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Hi M - I had a quick go but if I stay here getting this to scan properly I'll be late for work!

Shakespeare – Did He Or Didn't He?
An Ode for Morrace

Forsooth, in truth he was a cad
Who stole ideas he never had
Instead he had a team like Rossy
Known in town as Shaky's possy

But an irate sire had a fit
When Bill ripped off his 'As you Like It'
They arranged to duel in the square
But even then he'd not play fair

The lead from Hamlet in a dress
Took his place in battle, what a mess!
The Baird went drinking with a wench
Then fornicated on a bench.

The Scandal made the Daily News
He was the talk of all the Mews
They no longer worshipped him, the fools
From thence he penned bad musicals.

So let that be a lesson, one and all
Those who steal, from great heights fall.

(In your face Dennis Leary, in your face!)

Jx

It has been suggested that the Bard was in fact multiple writers!

Sounds like BSG!

Wait no! Leave it!

Edit - Jane beats me to it and in a quite wonderful way

I have seen a Shakespeare play and I thought it was very good. Mind you, it did star Tamsin Greig which many people on the forum know I have a "Thing" for.

It was Much Ado About Nothing, with Greig playing the female lead of Beatrice. It was quite odd in one way because half of the people in the theatre were were Shakespeare fans and the other half were fans of Green Wing and Greig. Greig did very well mind and won an Olivier Award for her performance, resulting in perhaps the funniest exceptance speech ever, which you can see here.

I think that the main problem with Shakespeare is the way it is taught in schools. Pupils are just made to read the play and figure out what certains bits mean and such. I think that as it is a play, a better way to learn it would to see it played out or to get the students to play it themselves.

Quote: bigfella @ May 11 2009, 8:01 AM BST

It has been suggested that the Bard was in fact multiple writers!

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He is. Was:

Due to the competitive theatre industry and lack of copyright laws, Shakespeare never wrote any of his plays (well, never kept record of their scripts anyway), but were learned by the actors by heart. They were only written down after his death, compiled by a number of his principal artistes. (A quick check on Wikipedia places his death as 1616 and the First Folio at 1623.) Thus it's fairly safe to say that the plays attributed to William Shakespeare are unlikely to be entirely as he wrote them.

Oh, and I take the Blackadder Back And Forth approach to Shakespeare.

How do you explain the sonnets then?

I didn't say anything about the sonnets, did I? However, since you raise the point, I see that there is also more than a little ambiguity as to their accuracy too.

He's still read and performed now, so I'd lean towards genius. Not many writers nowadays will still have an audience in 400 years time.

Agree with Chip. I loved learning Shakespeare at school, I loved watching his plays and I love the fact that so many films are based upon his ideas.

I watched a programme last night saying he was black?!?!

Louis Theroux?

Quote: EllieJP @ May 11 2009, 11:17 AM BST

Louis Theroux?

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Yes, how crazy was that?

Quote: Darren Pomroy @ May 11 2009, 11:13 AM BST

I watched a programme last night saying he was black?!?!

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Every famous person in history has had that levelled at them at some point. George Washington. Jesus. Beethoven etc etc.

Quote: chipolata @ May 11 2009, 11:19 AM BST

Every famous person in history has had that levelled at them at some point. George Washington. Jesus. Beethoven etc etc.

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Could be, who knows? Just a matter of genetics...

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ May 11 2009, 11:21 AM BST

Could be, who knows? Just a matter of genetics...

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I know. And although black people have a lot of good qualities - great sense of ryhthym, good at sprinting etc - there's no way they could write a proper play or symphony, or be prseident of the United States.