Jupitus On Torture Porn Page 3

Quote: chipolata @ April 16 2009, 11:51 AM BST

So we need censorship for people in their wrong minds? How would that work again?

View original

No, you need to make sure people (everyone) are emotionally healthy to begin with.

Quote: sootyj @ April 16 2009, 12:00 PM BST

I mean filth porn and nastiness for educated, "sane" elite?

We accept that in a fair society certain things are not acceptable; encouraging law breaking, paedophilic images, racism etc.

The question is how far do we extend or not extend these laws.

View original

The emotionally healthy don't have a need or want to see this sort of thing.

Erm Dolly you may be about to fall down a very deep metaphorical rabbit hole.

I don't have what could be considered the world's greatest mental health. But as long as I obey the law and keep my trousers on in public that's my business.

I work with a lot of people who are not "emotionally healthy." And attempts to make them healthy has blighted their lives.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 16 2009, 12:04 PM BST

No, you need to make sure people (everyone) are emotionally healthy to begin with.

The emotionally healthy don't have a need or want to see this sort of thing.

View original

That's a view that would disturb me.

Many people have a rich and creative imaginative fantasy life.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 16 2009, 12:04 PM BST

The emotionally healthy don't have a need or want to see this sort of thing.

View original

I quite like a spot of torture porn every now and then. Am I not emotionally healthy?

I tend to find on-screen violence funny. Lots of films nowadays use it instead of a decent storyline though. I like a good story with some amusing violence - hence I tend to really enjoy the Romero zombie movies. He at least attempts a story and there's usually some good deaths in there (e.g. the farmer with the scythe in Diary....)

Quote: sootyj @ April 16 2009, 12:08 PM BST

Erm Dolly you may be about to fall down a very deep metaphorical rabbit hole.

I don't have what could be considered the world's greatest mental health. But as long as I obey the law and keep my trousers on in public that's my business.

I work with a lot of people who are not "emotionally healthy." And attempts to make them healthy has blighted their lives.

That's a view that would disturb me.

Many people have a rich and creative imaginative fantasy life.

View original

Sooty, I suffer from depression. What I mean is that I believe pyschopaths, etc are made and not born. It's their early life that shapes them. If we took more effort in this country over the early years of children, poverty and education there's be a lot more stable people around who are not dangerous, violent or have fantasies of being so.

Quote: chipolata @ April 16 2009, 12:13 PM BST

I quite like a spot of torture porn every now and then. Am I not emotionally healthy?

View original

What do you get out it?

I think my point is not being understood. I'm saying that the trend for very graphic violence in films is not a cause but a symptom. A symptom that we not repulsed by such imagery. Why and what can we do about? I'm not talking about people being made to be 'normal', I'm talking about people being more caring and emphatic.

Maybe some people get a thrill in this imagery like they would from a roller-coaster ride, or maybe it's the rubber-necking at a car crash type thing? I don't know, because I don't get it personally. But it is worrying...

I've not seen any of these films, but there is one interesting thing I want to point out.

Earlier this year, the British government brought in the law banning "Extreme pornography", which is defined as a pornographic image, "of such a nature that it must reasonably be assumed to have been produced solely or principally for the purpose of sexual arousal", which is, "grossly offensive, disgusting or otherwise of an obscene character", and contains any of the following:

* 1) "an act which threatens a person's life,

* 2) "an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,

* 3) "an act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse,

* 4) "a person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive)

"and a reasonable person looking at the image would think that any such person or animal was real."

Seemingly, the only difference between these films and extreme porn is the sex. To me, this seems hypocritical. It is OK to show a film feautring someone being tortured beyond believe, but once the torturer has sex with the victim, that's a crime. You should either ban both or legalise both.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 16 2009, 12:25 PM BST

I think my point is not being understood. I'm saying that the trend for very graphic violence in films is not a cause but a symptom. A symptom that we not repulsed by such imagery. Why and what can we do about? I'm not talking about people being made to be 'normal', I'm talking about people being more caring and emphatic.

View original

There is a problem in todays society with people lacking empathy for their fellow human beings. We appear to have a generation of young people devoid of morality. Not sure this can be plopped at the door of torture porn, though. And, realistically, how big is it? As a genre? Not very. There's been a handful of films but they already seem to be dying away.

Quote: chipolata @ April 16 2009, 12:53 PM BST

There is a problem in todays society with people lacking empathy for their fellow human beings. We appear to have a generation of young people devoid of morality. Not sure this can be plopped at the door of torture porn, though. And, realistically, how big is it? As a genre? Not very. There's been a handful of films but they already seem to be dying away.

View original

That's why I said it was a symptom and not a cause.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 16 2009, 12:56 PM BST

That's why I said it was a symptom and not a cause.

View original

Yeah, but we had pretty gruelling films like this in the seventies, like The Hills Have Eyes and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Not sure this latest batch - which aren't as good as those - are anything new.
So was it also a symptom then?

To go back to Lee's opening blurb, Hostel is a bloody awful film.

A film I had a problem with recently, which I had to turn off, was The 51st State, with Samuel L. Jackson and Robert Carlyle. Real witless, unfunny trash, that uses large amounts of swearing to cover for the lack of ingenuity in the script. Now, I love a good swear, but preferably when it's used with a degree of creativity (eg The Thick of It) and not all the f**king time.

I'm not sure whether that's a sign of ageing or of merely possessing a working brain and decent taste.

Quote: Dolly Dagger @ April 16 2009, 12:25 PM BST

If we took more effort in this country over the early years of children, poverty and education there's be a lot more stable people around who are not dangerous, violent or have fantasies of being so.

View original

I think this is an idealistic view to be honest. We are very good at blaming the here and now on our societies problems. I don't think there has been a decade in my life when I haven't heard the same thing mentioned and a plethora of items used as an excuse for the various behaviours of people. We strive to find reason with anything that destroys the societal image we have built but we mostly fail to see, or admit, that as a species we are warlike and destructive against anything that intrudes on our social group. The bigger problem is that some of us are just warlike and destructive full stop.

We would like to believe that we are all lovely caring people and the worlds ills are caused by a very few who have been tainted somehow. My belief is that this notion is wrong. We are not all loving but a mix of people with various mixtures of both good and bad traits. In some the good outweighs the bad and in others it is vice versa. Whether a persons behaviour trait is learnt or inherited is still widely debated. I think the arguement is called Nature vs Nurture. Also, do people who watch bad films do bad things? Again this is another much debated issue. It is all too easy to try and make sweeping statements one way or the other.

Although I am all in favour of increasing educational standards and increasing living stadards, I do not believe that this will stop certain people from being violent and destructive towards others.

Def.

Quote: john lucas 101 @ April 16 2009, 1:13 PM BST

To go back to Lee's opening blurb, Hostel is a bloody awful film.

View original

You say that, but there were some scantily clad women in it.

Quote: john lucas 101 @ April 16 2009, 1:13 PM BST

A film I had a problem with recently, which I had to turn off, was The 51st State, with Samuel L. Jackson and Robert Carlyle. Real witless, unfunny trash, that uses large amounts of swearing to cover for the lack of ingenuity in the script.

View original

And, crucially, no scantily clad women.

Quote: Ian Wolf @ April 16 2009, 12:43 PM BST

* 4) "a person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive)

View original

You'd hope it would be alive.
Someone having sex with a dead animal is just sick.

Quote: sootyj @ April 16 2009, 12:08 PM BST

Erm Dolly you may be about to fall down a very deep metaphorical rabbit hole.

View original

You take the red pill, erm Dolly and Sootyj will show you how deep the metaphorical rabbit-hole goes.

Quote: Morrace @ April 16 2009, 1:29 PM BST

You take the red pill, erm Dolly and Sootyj will show you how deep the metaphorical rabbit-hole goes.

View original

I've already eaten one cake with 'Eat me' written on it today.